Fansub Review: [Commie vs rori] Kokoro Connect (Episode 01)

Fansub Review, Subtitle Comparison — By on July 8, 2012 3:01 am

This post was written by Dark_Sage. He is Dark_Sage.

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Official reviews will start with episode 2. For now, enjoy this head to head for the best show this season. For all comparisons, Commie’s screens are listed first and rori’s are listed second.

Table of Contents

Release Information

Visual Quality

Script Quality

Results

Release Information

Episode details: Commie.

Release format: MKV (204 MB, 10-bit)

Japanesiness: No honorifics.

English style: American English.

Encoding details: http://pastebin.com/c6DjL1bG

Speed: Quick (<48 hours)

Group website: http://commiesubs.com/

IRC channel: #[email protected]

 

Episode details: rori.

Release format: MKV (228 MB, 10-bit)

Japanesiness: Honorifics.

English style: American English.

Encoding details: http://pastebin.com/jhfta8r6

Speed: Quick (<48 hours)

Group website: http://rorisubs.com/

IRC channel: #[email protected]

 

External links.

8thsin’s translation critique: N/A

Ji-hi’s screenshot comparisons: N/A

SubCompare screenshot comparisons: http://subcompare.com/kokoro/index.html

Commie’s fansub reviews: N/A

 

Visual Review

Karaoke.

There’s no way around it, I fucking love what Commie did here. Just fucking brilliant effort. I appreciate the vision card was trying to achieve with this chalkboard, but with rori’s release untypeset, it feels like an unfortunate decision. Now, I was told to blame Sutai, not card, so I’m going to. Sutai, I blame you. Whoever’s to blame though, I like Commie’s work here the best.

Commie’s font matches the credits perfectly. While rori’s doesn’t, that doesn’t mean it isn’t good. card themed the entire karaoke around the concept of a chalkboard, which is why the background looks like the marks a chalkboard eraser makes and the colors fit that of a chalkboard. Whether you buy into that artistic vision or not is a personal choice, and while I liked how Commie’s meshed with the credits better, I thought rori’s choice was an interesting decision.

While Commie stuck with the pink (a smart choice), rori took the opportunity to go full-out rainbow mode. This was more impressive for the lines it affected.

 

Overall, the typesetting in Commie’s OP combined with the sensible font choice makes their opening more enjoyable to watch than rori’s. I assume rori will typeset the chalkboard in episode 2, and if so… well, I’m not sure which group’s OP I’d rather watch. I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Similar color choices (shut up, yes they are similar). I don’t know if I particularly care for either of them to a significant degree over the other.

 

Both are fine.

For the ending, I didn’t find a pressing reason to favor one group over the other.

 

 

Typesetting.

I didn’t particularly think this sign needed to be typeset, but I always appreciate effort to make the subs better for viewers, however slightly. If this were an actual review, I wouldn’t count this against rori, but this is a face-off. Shit’s bloodthirsty here.

Point: Commie.

Commie’s matches the line count and utilizes the empty space better, but rori’s matches the font much better and grabs the eye quicker. Gonna call this one a tie.

I appreciate what rori’s doing here, but I also appreciate being able to read the school’s name.

rori’s definitely matches better here.

 

Other.

 

Script Quality

Main Script.

Of the first two screens, I much prefer Commie’s version. It’s so much wittier, so much more sarcastic. When you factor in the third screen, though, I’m inclined toward rori’s version. “ice cold” as a comeback feels so… old. It reminds me of the people who still think “Whassssuuuupp?” is still funny. If you must use a similar phrase, us “Frigid.” One word, one sentence. It gets the ice cold part across, but also implies that he’s calling her a “frigid bitch”.

So overall, this one goes to rori.

Sorry, fotc, I promised to help you with this line but I failed in the end. I don’t like the image that wolves bring up, so I’m going to go with Commie’s version as the better choice here.

rori started every character’s introduction with “Or, for example,” while Commie switched things up so every sentence was something new. I’m sure you can see the flavor in Commie’s line more than rori’s, which feels dull in comparison. For this entire character introduction piece, Commie did a much better job than rori did.

Commie pretty much killed the line here, and I don’t mean in a good way. Inaba is a character who sleeps, eats, and breathes sarcasm. Sarcasm is all about indirectness while swearing is all about directness. So when introducing cussing into her vernacular as a standard response, she no longer becomes witty; she becomes an angry bitch. And there’s a big difference between the two. Now, I don’t mean she can’t swear. I’m saying that swearing as a retort in and of itself is not something that her character is likely to do. Essentially, this is really poor editing that fails completely at line delivery.

Not that rori’s lines are any better; “as you can see” is a pretty terrible response for someone as witty as Inaba. Can you guess who my favorite character is yet?

I think you can probably see the pattern here. Commie’s lines are often just plain better than rori’s. They’re wittier and they add much more flavor to the show.

Yeah, okay. I think this unofficial comparison is over. It’s pretty obvious that Commie’s script is better than rori’s most of the time.

 

Results

I know rori was bragging about how CR’s script was bad. But I don’t see myself choosing rori’s release to view this show at this point. I mean, we’ll see what happens on episode 2, but I felt that I got a better experience while watching Commie’s release than rori’s. The jokes were better, the phrasing was better, the flow was better, there was more effort put into the typesetting.

tl;dr: Commie > rori

Grade:
Show:
Tags: , , , ,

151 Comments

Le Anon says:

Yuru Yuri reviews when?

Dark_Sage says:

Five groups on a season 2 show? Jesus Christ.

Yuru reviews… depending on how much time I have. I’d rather review first seasons first.

thecowgoesmoo says:

You should do a translation party for Yuru Yuri. It would allow you to procrastinate even longer on the show… not that you need an excuse.

Dark_Sage says:

Oh hells yeah, a translation party would be easy. From 10 hours to review all 5 separately down to like… 3, max. Good idea.

meesles says:

five? try seven….
http://subcompare.com/yuruyuris2/index.html

fuckin ridiculous how popular shows breed shit subs

Cock-chan says:

2nd row from the bottom:
>My absolute territory’s getting too big! I’ll never be a bride now.
Fuck. I wish I could unsee that. If that’s how they want to do this, why not just go full-wap and say “zettai ryouiki?” Some people would like that.
CR tried to localize it and came up with this shit:
http://subcompare.com/yuruyuris2/commie/sub8.png
Only one group (Tonde) made a decent line:
http://subcompare.com/yuruyuris2/tonde/sub8.png
Also they have best karaoke.
From 10 hours to 10 minutes. Just kidding.

Nemui says:

Checking out the comparison, I gagged on that, too.

The CR script is ugh. Is this really professional translation?

The “Akarin’s buns” line is handled badly, too. The Japanese say 今日も because 今日 alone would imply that her buns weren’t cute yesterday. CR’s English line implies that Akarin’s buns have only recently started being cute, and it’s still surprising.

Okay, so not as much a disaster as the skirt line, but, come on CR, this is basic conversational TL and not something you’d expect professionals to trip up on.

“Why are your buns always so cute, Akarin?”
“Your buns are as cute as ever!”
“Your buns are so cute!”
(Yep, leaving 今日も out of the translation is a better option than using a line like CR’s.)

Le Anon says:

The scene is from an otaku-pandering movie Mirakurun. The “absolute territory” was intentionally written that way. That is not wrong. You “lost it” after reading that sentence from a movie made for the otaku? Mission-fucking-accomplished.

Dark_Sage says:

I prefer the otaku-pandering movie Mikurun.

Vong says:

Discount Horriblesubs immediately

L-sama says:

And why is that? HorribleSubs [CR] sometimes ends up being better than most fansubs…

Le Anon says:

Are you implying Commie, Coalgirls, etc. have original translations? They rip/steal from CR, so reviewing CR is redundant.

Uichan says:

I’d also like to see Yuru Yuri reviews. Mostly separate if possible.

Actar says:

Damn, translating sure is a bitch with all the nuances that have to be properly conveyed in English. Looks like one has to have a good grasp of both English and Japanese to be a competent translator…

Anyways, regarding the translations themselves, while it’s definitely more fun to read, I think that there is a limit to how much spice you can add to a line without taking away or changing the original dialogue.

I’m not too against rori’s decision to begin each character’s introduction with “or, for example”. In the Japanese dialogue, the character did choose to start each introduction with the same words, when there are actually numerous other ways that he could have said it. Stylistic choice on his part perhaps?

boo says:

>In the Japanese dialogue, the character did choose to start each introduction with the same words, when there are actually numerous other ways that he could have said it. Stylistic choice on his part perhaps?

It’s used for emphasis there, so rori actually nailed this part, while commie (cr?) missed.

Actar says:

Yes, that’s basically what I was getting at. Sometimes, characters word their sentences in a particular way in the Japanese dialogue and I would prefer to see these nuances in the English translations as well.

herkz says:

So you’d rather see an awkward literal translation because it’s close to the original than something well-edited that’s actually pleasurable to read and sounds like something someone would actually say?

Delusional.

boo says:

“Awkward” is not the point here. The repetition, while normally is undesirable, has a specific use here. Some rules are meant to be broken when an occasion arise and this is such occasion.

>something well-edited that’s actually pleasurable to read and sounds like something someone would actually say?

…is absolutely irrelevant here.

Dark_Sage says:

It’s a narrative choice, yes. The question is whether or not it’s a good narrative choice. I enjoyed the section a lot more when it didn’t remind me of this scene:

Perhaps you want a more stale version of the show. Fine, I hope this review helped you figure out which is more suited to your tastes. But as a viewer I am less interested in a literal, exact translation than an enjoyable one.

boo says:

I think you misunderstand me. I’m all for proper adaption of a script. To me a literal translation is a translation badly done. However my argument about that particular line is not about literal translation, it’s about a point in the narrative that had to to emphasized and Commie dismissed the emphasis completely. Japanese script doesn’t have that specific choice of words because it’s grammatically correct, but because that specific structure was chosen for emphasis. That’s my point, it’s not the literal translation, it’s the meaning, the nuance, that was lost.

And btw at no point I suggested that you do a piss-poor job when doing a review.

Nevreen says:

The thing here is that you don’t really lose anything important by getting rid of the repetition. While it may have been intentional, it’s boring, and I’d much rather read Commie’s varied lines than rori’s in this case.

Improving the Japanese script should not be frowned upon as long as the meaning of the line is preserved. In this case, the repetition doesn’t serve a purpose. While I wouldn’t say rori was wrong in preserving the repetition, I would definitely say that Commie did a better job with this segment.

Actar says:

“Improving the Japanese script should not be frowned upon”

I’m sorry, but for me, modifying the original source material is a no-no. I’m not sure about the translation policies of others, but if I were to translate something, I want to present the media to the viewer as close to the original as possible.

To me, that should be the goal of a translator, to allow someone to enjoy a media product for what it is (the good and the bad), and not add your own spin to it. That way, the audience is enjoying somethign YOU wrote and not the product itself.

Xythar says:

Any time you translate something, the audience is enjoying something you wrote. There is no way to translate without doing that as translation requires you to apply your own interpretation to the script and its meaning.

If that wasn’t the case, we could simply machine translate everything. I get what you claim to want, but it isn’t possible – regardless of how many groups you think do it.

herkz says:

It’s always relevant and possibly the most important thing about editing. And yes, “awkward” is the point. How is it not the point? I don’t just mean the repetition is awkward, I mean the entire way they wrote every sentence in this review is so awkward I have to question if the editor and translator even speak English IRL to anyone ever.

boo says:

Since it would be pointless to repeat myself, i think my comment just above yours (at 11:48) covers why the “awkward” doesn’t matter for that particular line. The repetition is needed to draw attention.

It’s debatable whenever it could be done better:

There is similar instance in Baccano script in the first episode in the dialogue between Carol and that other guy, but because there the repetitive word happens to be “or” (aruiwa) it’s more acceptable. Perhaps just “or” could work here as well.

The point remains, the repetition had its purpose.

FalseDawn says:

To be honest, any editor worth their salt would be able to keep the repetition in without it sounding stale, instead of trying to rewrite scenes for the hell of it :)

Xythar says:

I’m not really sure what you mean. The repetition sounds stale because it’s repetition, so there’s no way to actually do what you said.

Unless you simply mean using a variety of ways to say “and, for example,” because that’s exactly what was done here.

FalseDawn says:

Well, I haven’t seen the episode so it’s hard to comment specifically, but it sound like the repetition is centred around “for example” – putting “then” as your sentence starter loses that sentence structure.

I think a better route would be taking the word “example” and building your sentences around it, so for instance:

“Take, for example…”
“The next example is…” etc etc

Obviously I’ve thrown that together roughly without watching the scene, so they might not work perfectly in those situations, but as I say, a top-tier editor should be able to work around it without rehashing the translations too much.

Hello says:

If the original dialogue is awkward, or in this case repetitive, then yes, I would like to see that reflected in the subtitles. As Actar pointed out, it’s not like everyone in Japan introduces themselves in the same way; it’s clearly done so deliberately here.

boo says:

Exactly!

Xythar says:

What is your concept of “the original dialogue”? Unless you think everyone speaks like a robot in Japanese then there’s nothing lost in making the characters speak like real people and adding a bit of wit to the script – the intended meaning still comes through if you do it properly. This has been the approach used by professional translations since forever.

meesles says:

Are you implying professional translations do a good job on a regular basis? (; ・_ ・)

Mahjong says:

Of course, I mean, look at funi; their subs are the best around.

Xythar says:

…Yes?

boo says:

only he is not speaking as a “real person” in that part, his role there is that of a narrator. He sort of telling a tale if you will.

Actar says:

By original (in this case) I meant “たとえば、それは...”. Instead of changing his sentence structure, the character decided to stick with that one phrase thorough the entire sequence.

Even in daily conversation and in English media, repeating words isn’t that uncommon, especially when listing things off of one’s head. It’s certainly true that people don’t speak like robots, but their speech isn’t always that flamboyant either.

…and just to make thing’s clear, I never did say that rori’s way of translating was the best or the only way to translate. It’s just that I have nothing against it.

Sapphi says:

That might be the case. However, the main point of a narrative is to be immersed within it, so some liberties may have to be taken with the style of rhetoric to maintain flow. An English -> Japanese TL might do the same thing.

Rule #1: A translation that makes you forget that it’s a translation is a masterpiece. To make it even more difficult, it’s entirely possible to make a ‘literal’ translation make sense in English, but if you make the audience feel the wrong thing (the -very same- words can make you feel differently in different languages), you’ve failed… So anyway, using the same exact style of rhetoric isn’t so cut and dry.

Actar says:

Honestly, if the repetition sounds bland in English, it sounds bland in Japanese as well. A translation should bring that blandness across.

A translation =/= re-write. That’s not a translation, that’s putting your own spin on things and modifying the original script. Even though the liberties taken with liberal translations might improve the show making it funnier, wittier or cruder, you are not letting the audience enjoy the show for what it is. If the show is god damn boring, a translator’s job should bring that god damn boringness across.

herkz says:

I’m not sure you can say the original script is boring if you don’t know Japanese. Which you clearly don’t.

Actar says:

Your comment would be downright hilarious if you actually knew what I did in real life. But, then gain, there’s no way of proving anything on the internet, so let’s just leave it at that. (~.’)

brainchild says:

>Honestly, if the repetition sounds bland in English, it sounds bland in Japanese as well.
Even if you say that, it can’t be helped.

njd09 says:

I agree with what you’re saying, but as was said, if you don’t know Japanese, then it doesn’t really count for much. I’m completely with you on the re-writing thing though, it’s my least favorite thing in translations. If I wanted to read some shitty lines made up by John Doe, I’d read fanfiction. Not accusing any groups of doing this, as I don’t think there are any out there that do, but I dislike re-writes in general. As for the repetition, if it’s really that way in Japanese and they changed it, I don’t think it’s that big of a deal. I think the only re-write that was bad here was the “dumbass” line, which Dark_Sage already explained.

Rock says:

About this–
”Sorry, fotc, I promised to help you with this line but I failed in the end. I don’t like the image that wolves bring up, so I’m going to go with Commie’s version as the better choice here.”
if someone watching Teen Wolf(s2 ong) series like me then its easy to understand that part of rori’s ver.

Daniel says:

So, Dark Sage, basically, we’ll start seeing reviews tonight?

ar says:

Wow.

> I appreciate what rori’s doing here, but I also appreciate being able to read the school’s name.

The first rule of typesetting is: If the Japanese is hard or annoying to read, then you best be making sure that your English shit is also hard or annoying to read.

This my friend is what being a true typesetter is about. One has to understand these kinds of things and reflect them in their work~

Le Anon says:

>First rule of artistic typesetting is*
Fixed.

>This my friend is what being artsy is about*
Fixed.

Put up a translation where everyone can see is always the best and only option.

ar says:

No, fuck what people can see. Typesetting is about being artsy. You nailed it there though.

> Put up a translation in big bold Yellow Arial at the top of the screen that looks shitty so that people such as myself who cannot appreciate the artsy and fabulous can see*
Double fixed and is clearly what you meant to say.

> *is always the worst possible option and should always be avoided lest you subtitle streams or dvds.
Double fixed and what you clearly wanted to say.

Sutai says:

Making things hard to read is more fun than an8ing.

thecowgoesmoo says:

Cutting off the name is one thing; not bothering to set an outline/border is another.

Sutai says:

Doing so’d make it stand out too much, i.e Commie’s.

herkz says:

Maybe rori should hire an editor (´・ω・`)

temp_late says:

Is that an acceptable use (misuse?) of Q.E.D. in conversational language? Or if it’s supposed to be tacked on to the end of the first line, the break isn’t helping. Hopefully I’m not embarrassing myself here with some Latin fail.

I liked Commie’s script overall though.

njd09 says:

I have never even heard that phrase once in my life. I don’t know why it’s even in there, honestly. I had to google it to find out what it meant, and it just seemed like a strange decision, as I’m positive that I’m not the only one who has never heard that phrase before.

temp_late says:

I mostly only see it in formal mathematical proofs, where it’s at the end. Many prefer using the square instead though.

However, I have heard it in conversational language, just not in a long time.

P32L says:

Well QED is used at the end of theorem and signifies the closing to an argument, mathematical or philosophical, so I don’t think it’s quite correct if that’s the context. Of course, if the character is inclined to misusing verbose words they don’t understand, it isn’t an issue.

temp_late says:

My feeling was that people could have misappropriated the term to the point where it might be acceptable now, so I was wondering if anybody had heard it that way.

Likewise, you’re right that it could be a matter of showing a character trait. But is that the case?

P32L says:

Consider the rarity of the term informally, I don’t believe its meaning has generalised to point where it is synonymous with ‘so’. Having never watched the show, I cannot judge whether the line is in-character or not.

Nevreen says:

QED is used to mark the conclusion to the demonstration of a formal theorem or argument. In this case, his demonstration has no relation to the conclusion he puts forward, which is the whole joke. Although it’s logically unsound, the use of QED here is correct. I’ve heard and used QED myself in funny situations, so it’s not really unnatural to see it used in this way here.

temp_late says:

Yeah, on second thought, the joke’s that he’s not making any sense and unsoundly jumping to a conclusion, so it’s adding another error to his logic. It might not be as funny if he used it the right way, regardless of whether or not it’s accepted use or anybody actually uses it that way. I’ll buy that.

0.0 says:

What’s the point if a lot of people can’t understand the joke?

FalseDawn says:

They should have trolled and just put “[/thread]” or something. Everyone woulda got that.

B1 says:

Don’t worry. Plenty of us got it.

flipr says:

I think the lesson learned from these comments is that you all are fortunate enough to not have XKCD jammed down your throats every other day.

I feel like “QED” was a good choice here. It’s better than saying something like “therefore” because it implies that there is no room left for argument because his logic is complete.

Nevreen says:

Also, it’s just funnier.

njd09 says:

What I got out of this was to watch the unedited CR script. I preferred the CR lines to Commie’s and rori’s, honestly. The “dumbass” line was definitely out of character, and I couldn’t care less about typesetting, honestly. I don’t see any reason to wait longer for Commie’s, though I’ll say the karaoke is a plus. But if the fastest release is my favorite release, then it’s a pretty simple choice.

brainchild says:

Yes, a girl who hits others and is a total sarcastic ass is above cursing.

Dark_Sage says:

Of course she can curse… when it’s applicable. That line WAS out of character. Her forte is thick, harsh sarcasm. When you make her retorts turn to simple cursing, it’s killing the character facet of her that I fapped to three times last night.

Please, brain, don’t kill my fap material. :(

brainchild says:

Simply cursing? I call them “sentence enhancers.”

But seriously, the episode was so boring, I only went over the script once. Every change was basically what first popped into my head, save for a few last-minute changes by XytharQC™. When the drama picks up, I’ll probably put some more effort into it.

Someone please tell me this show has romance in it.

Patrick Star says:

Spongebob reference is best reference.

Nevreen says:

Dark_Sage pretty much summed up why making her swear in that scene was a bad decision. There are countless more sarcastic lines that could have been used to ridicule the other dude without killing the exchange.

Xythar says:

Most of the lines he pointed out as good were from us, actually. CR’s script has some great lines, but it benefits from good editing the same as most any other.

If you don’t care about that (or timing, typesetting, song lyrics, etc) then feel free to save a few hours by getting HS, but we’ll continue working on this for the people who do.

njd09 says:

Of course. For the record, having her curse is fine. It’s just exactly as D_S put it, it’s the whole line in general that killed the character. I’m certainly not suggesting that you stop releasing this, that’s ridiculous. I’m merely stating that in terms of script, I feel that your edits caused more harm than good. The QED line is another example. I don’t know anyone who even knows what that means. It seems like the editing is less focused on making the subs understandable (imo, they were perfect as is), but more focused on fancying them up, which I find unnecessary. Honestly, if you had just typeset and added karaoke and fixed typos, that would have been better. I think this is overedited. That’s the point I’m trying to make.

I do agree with Dark_Sage, though – yours is better than rori’s. CR’s is better, though. Some examples:

CR: “You’re the only one here?” “That should be obvious.”

Commie: “You’re the only one here?” “You have eyes, dumbass.”

This is the main one, of course. Makes her sound hostile rather than her “I don’t give a shit” attitude.

The other one I mentioned…

CR: “So we should start going out!”

Commie: “Q.E.D. We should start going out!”

I’m still not convinced that anyone has ever or would ever say Q.E.D. in a real sentence. If I ever hear it in real life, I’ll retract that. Not likely though.

So, your script seems almost exactly like the CR script, except two of your stand-out lines, in my humble opinion, were poor choices that hurt the script. The others improved on CR’s script, but in very minor ways (i.e. you added ‘ice’ in front of cold). The pattern I’m noticing from this review is that on minor edits, it’s an improvement, but on bigger edits, it usually is unnecessary and has a negative impact on the script.

That’s what I mean by “overedited”. I think the script was better without the “benefit” of this editing.

Xythar says:

“No, I just like standing here” and “connoisseur of cute” are two examples of more significant edits that were pretty nice in my opinion – to say nothing of the stuff that wasn’t covered in the face-off.

Q.E.D. is there to tie into “conclusion” in the next line. It makes the conversation funnier and that’s all about there is to it.

Anyway though, like I said it’s up to you.

brainchild says:

You need some smarter friends.

njd09 says:

@Xythar – Fair enough. “Connoisseur of cute” is nice, I’ll give you that much. I personally think that most people don’t know what QED means, so it wouldn’t be funny to them, but maybe that’s just me.

@brainchild – If you think knowing obscure Latin phrases makes you smart, then I guess that’s that. I certainly wouldn’t put QED on my IQ test, though. What’s the point of alienating the people who don’t know such obscure phrases just to put in some “high-class humor”? It’s nonsensical and counterintuitive. The idea of subtitles is to make sure every English-speaking viewer understands what is being said, not just pander to the ones who speak in obscure phrases. I haven’t seen “E pluribus unum” in any fansubs lately, though you could technically put it in there, as most people should know what it means, but what would that add? It just comes off as trying to be clever, and trying too hard, at that.

herkz says:

using Q.E.D. informally is pretty common in my experience

Dark_Sage says:

Yeah, same here. It might be regional, but I doubt brain and herkz are in the midwest too.

Progeusz says:

There are people from other countries who don’t use Q.E.D. but abbreviation in their own language. I don’t like using google in the middle of a joke.
Judging by those screenshots, both groups are more or less even.

Xythar says:

Our scripts are aimed at native English speakers. I’d rather simply use whatever words work best without having to worry about whether every single person in the audience will understand them or not.

QED isn’t even English anyway, technically speaking.

Progeusz says:

Meanies.

herkz says:

Do you know how much more work it would be to edit in a way other than exactly how I speak for the entire script for 5 episodes a week?

Yeah, never going to happen.

herkz says:

Actually, I am, but I don’t think it’s relevant.

Sanka says:

I live in the midwest and I’ve only ever heard it a handful of times.

njd09 says:

Well, if it really is that common, then I guess that’s that. I suppose I’ll have to watch more Commie subs, perhaps I’ll learn something new each episode.

temp_late says:

Just curious here, but now that apparently people exist that actually use QED, is it common for people to use it incorrectly like that?

“Well, you could chalk it up to fate or karma from a past life. //
Q.E.D. We should start going out!”

versus

“Well, you could chalk it up to fate or karma from a past life. //
We should start going out! Q.E.D.”

or this was an intentional mistake for effect? It’s pretty obvious that this is a scriptwriting embellishment either way, but I can’t say that I despise those.

ookami says:

Personally I’d always go with the official ‘end of proof’ ∎ instead of old Latin q.e.d..
But why they used it in that place is indeed an interesting point.

herkz says:

I’m not sure that’s a very big deal compared to “lol wut is QED???”

brainchild says:

I’m sure you’d praise UTW or Mazui if they left some Japanese untranslated because “omg it totally helps me learn more about the Japanese culture and language,” but when it’s something useful like Latin, you’re all like, “Aw, hells no!” It’s totally okay to look up Japanese words, but Latin? Fuck that!

Xythar says:

I’m now very disappointed that there wasn’t more Latin left in Thermae Romae.

FalseDawn says:

Latin’s dead, man. Let it go.

njd09 says:

If the Latin was in the original Japanese version of the show, I’d applaud you for leaving it in. You just took out “so” and put Latin in where there was none previously. I don’t quite get what you’re saying here. Either way, I learned my lesson. Just gonna keep Google open in a tab when watching anime from now on. Saves me the damn trouble.

For the record, I don’t look up the Japanese words left untranslated unless the word is said like a million times. I just kind of skip over it. I’d really prefer not to get up and Google every little thing, but then again, I prefer simplicity over nuance. Oh well. Can’t wait to see what you guys use next!

Xythar says:

To be fair, we’re also responsible for putting quite a lot of English in where there was none previously.

Kira0802 says:

To be honest, QED isn’t that uncommon. Maybe other Latin terms such as “id est” (i.e.) or “requiescat in pace” (RIP) are more known, but most people can get the meaning of QED.

0.0 says:

I didn’t know any of them :D!

P32L says:

So learning a dead language is more useful than a language with over 130 million native speakers? Nice logic there. Considering half our words are from Latin, I fail to see how you would have trouble finding a near 1:1 translation for words. Besides, you’d only be allowed to sprinkle the script with random Latin words by your standard (no fansub group worth its salt leaves whole sentences untranslated).

Nevreen says:

I’d say learning common phrases used internationally is far more useful than learning a few random words in a language that’s only used in one small country on the other side of the world.

Knowing phrases like “ad hominem”, “Anno Domini”, “Carpe diem”, “e pluribus unum”, and “habeas corpus” is much more likely to be useful to you than knowing “arigatou”, “tadaimasu”, and “kawaii moe moe”.

P32L says:

All of the Latin words you mentioned are already loanwords. Also I beg to differ. If you come across a stranger, words like ‘konnichiwa’ are going to be a lot more readily understood than ‘ave’ (unless you’re having a holiday in Vatican City). Latin can help you in comprehension with Latinate languages and legal documents, but for general conversation, Latin isn’t going to do much. Not to mention most of the words you mentioned are already loanwords with very narrow definitions.

Xythar says:

QED is as much of a loanword (loanphrase?) as the rest of those.

P32L says:

Did I claim it not to be?

temp_late says:

Isn’t a main point of using Latin that it’s a dead language, so the meaning and usage of words should not shift over time?

So there’s some irony in using the phrase incorrectly, no? Nobody’s claimed that the mistake was intentional, AFAIK. Needs more blur, I guess.

That’s the part that gets me about Commie’s line and Dark_Sage claiming that QED means “ergo”. I can’t recall if I’ve ever heard anybody misuse it that way in real life, but I get the feeling like it might have happened.

P32L says:

It’d be pretty unlikely that no-one has misused the word in such a way. While the usage is wrong, what really matters is whether or not it fits the character or not.

brainchild says:

Everything I do is intentional.

B1 says:

“If I ever hear it in real life, I’ll retract that. Not likely though.”

You need to get out more. I’ve heard it used countless times.

brainchild says:

Do I _ever_ disappoint?

shirayuki75 says:

I’ve never heard of QED, but I’ll go with Commie anyways. I hope you review UTWoots and NyanTaku’s SAO releases soon.

Zetman says:

What the hell is a QED? Quit Eating Dick?

Dark_Sage says:

It’s a pretentious way of saying “ergo”.

Zetman says:

Thanks for the reply. Ergo, I’m going to pass on both groups since the show seems rather queer. :P

Actar says:

Damn, I’m a native English speaker and I’ve never heard QED being used in an English conversation before. Not in daily life, not in American media, hell, not even in ENGLISH media. Do people even use those words in daily speech without trying to be pretentious?

Liberal is one thing, bombastic language that most English speakers hardly use or know of is another.

omega says:

Indeed. Why to use foreign words or phrases when you have an equivalent in your own language?

Xythar says:

Precisely. That’s why you won’t find honorifics or stuff like “onii-chan” in our subs.

LoL says:

Latin != Japanese. I was pretty sure you were watching a Japanese anime.

Nevreen says:

I’m actually astounded by how many people don’t know what QED is. This was something I learned in grade 10 trig. Hell, most of my friends are not native English speakers and I’m pretty sure more than half of them would know what QED is.

Also, I’ve been known to exclaim “QED, motherfucker” when arguing someone into a corner and/or just being drunk.

Obviously, this is all anecdotal evidence and it would be silly to try and extrapolate from it, but in my personal experience, QED is far from being pretentious language.

brainchild says:

Go back to school.

kyonyUU says:

where’s calyrica? we need a math major cruisin’ thru

temp_late says:

Well, it could be used pretentiously or just facetiously. In the latter case, it’s generally to finish off an argument to clown on somebody.

As multiple people mentioned, in mathematics most people these days (since the 80s? it’s probably not older than TeX) use the square to mark the end of a formal argument, rather than QED. Nevreen is probably hella old, or more likely had some trig teacher that didn’t keep up with the latest research and trends. That would describe most high school math teachers.

The common amsthm LaTeX package (AMS standing for American Mathematical Society), for typesetting math documents and the like, automatically places the square at the end of a proof:
ftp://ftp.ams.org/ams/doc/amscls/amsthdoc.pdf

Last time I saw anybody write QED for that purpose was a while back; some pasty nerd wrote QED inside of the square (dunno lol).

Then again, I’m not a mathematics major, just an EE grad student. What do logicians use?

The main reason I brought it up was that the QED in the wrong spot made me double take and rewind the video. I thought I misread something. Turns out I didn’t.

njd09 says:

Honestly, I think people just assume that everyone speaks the same way that they do. Now that I know what it means, if I heard QED used in real life (never have), I’d consider whoever used it to be pretentious. It just comes off that way. Then again, I don’t go to an artsy college, so maybe I’m just not “cultured” enough. When I QC, I remove anything I think sounds unnatural. I personally like to cater to the average person, not whatever the QED audience is. But a few people here are saying that the QED audience actually is the average Joe, which I can’t really argue with, since I have only anecdotal evidence to the contrary. I wouldn’t even put “ad hominem” or “ad nauseum” in my subs, though. And I hear those used all the time. For me, if I get praised by ten people for using a “cultured” phrase, but one person doesn’t understand it, there’s no point. But I do realize that having fun with the script is something that people like to do. Nothing you can do about that.

thecowgoesmoo says:

“not even in ENGLISH media”

You never watched “Me, Myself, and Irene”?

P32L says:

To be fair, that was a pretty shit movie.

thecowgoesmoo says:

Granted, but you didn’t know that until you watched it, did you?

P32L says:

True, but you can hardly blame them for not having watched it, can you?

OS23 says:

It’s a term used quite often in the science community.

Seriously? Commie > Rori? How is that possible?

brainchild says:

Because I’m the best.

I mean ,they’re just a bunch of Cr rippers. How can they beat a REAL fansub group?!!

brainchild says:

Because I’m the beeeest.

Xythar says:

Hey Leafy, what up

Heh at least unlike *some* rippers they changed the script. Hi XD

Nyara♥ says:

I watched the 01 with both versions, and I liked a lot more Commie for this one (B Tier), Rori was kinda… strange, at the point I wasn’t able to understand some things without need of pause.

Rem says:

We’ll include a secondary track in Spanish for you next time.

Nyara♥ says:

Nah, it’s just that the flow of Rori was kinda awkward, it happens with a awkward script of spanish, too. Also, lol.

Hypster says:

“flow of Rori”?

That happens when a chilean try to type in English.

beta says:

Tries, even.

Totally not horrible timing to screw up your English or anything.

Hypster says:

I know dude. That was my fail but at least I’m not trying to be a wannabe.

omega says:

You know that understanding and producing English are two different things? Like, one can easily understand English and see if it’s awkward or does it flow well, whereas producing it is a different matter.

Nyara♥ says:

That happens when I’m still learning redaction in English (I’m starting to practice it), anyway, sorry for my horrible redaction, I know it’s still awkward.

Chiakisama says:

I enjoyed Commie’s release, they definitely spiced up the original Japanese script. As I was listening to it earlier today I noticed how bland the Japanese is, I’m sure I would’ve fallen asleep if it weren’t for the fact that I was reading subs…

As for the Inaba line, there are probably quite a few different ways to get her sarcasm across. I think a good way to get a good cuss in without killing the character would something like “No shit, Sherlock.”

beta says:

“Give the genius a cigar.”
“You figure that out by yourself?”
“Nope, standing room only.”

They really need to recruit someone with deadpan snarking experience and wits into their ranks.

omega says:

I totally concur with the above. I guess calling somebody autistic is the way to handle these things nowadays.

jdf,[email protected] says:

Best show this season?
Negro pls.

MEMEME! says:

What about Doki-Chihiro version? how does it compare to commie and rori?

herkz says:

Two of the worst groups jointing to translate a series on their own that has a perfectly good simulcast.

Shouldn’t be hard tog uess.

cock-chan says:

It looks like everybody’s cock-hard for this show after ep04: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7wj6bZH9s1qc1mf0o1_500.jpg

Blue says:

I prefer something as close to the original/literal with the least awkwardness possible. Crunchyroll subs suck at it(Too liberal) and Commie or Rori can’t do much on something that sucks in the first place. Makes me feel like subs nowadays are targeted at Americans only.
Might as well watch raws than American English.

wylma says:

Meh, Commie always changes the subs way too much for my liking. Now that I’m studying Japanese it’s way too evident how they overreach by changing the nature of the dialogue too much. I’d rather the bland and original version rather than Commie’s script rewrites. I shudder to think what they’d do to LoGH.

Lordi says:

It was seeing their edits to CR’s Aldnoah script that really put me off them for good. The review is on this site. Changing a script to localize it or correct mistakes is one thing, but intentionally dumbing it down and removing characterization is just… no.

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