Fansub Review: [Commie] Tamako Market (Episode 04)

D-Tier, Fansub Review — By on February 1, 2013 10:48 pm

This post was written by Dark_Sage. He is Dark_Sage.

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Hey Commie, maybe you should stick to Crunchyroll rips. Original translations aren’t exactly your forte.

Table of Contents

Release Information

Visual Quality

Script Quality


Release Information

Episode details.

Release format: MKV (491 MB, 10-bit)

Japanesiness: No honorifics, but still some Jappy stuff (like the name of the shopping district being Usagiyama)

English style: American English.

Encoding details:

Speed: Quick (<48 hours)


External links.

Group website:

IRC channel: [email protected]

SubCompare screenshot comparisons:

Commie’s fansub reviews:


Visual Review


[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_01.34_[2013.02.01_12.20.01][Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_02.11_[2013.02.01_12.21.13]

Opening. I have no clue what they were going for here, and I don’t think they do either.

Rating: Bad.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_22.05_[2013.02.01_21.04.58]

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_23.22_[2013.02.01_21.11.54]

It’s not terrible, but it’s not good either. About the only thing that stood out to me was that the font can’t handle apostrophes.

Rating: Okay.




[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_01.26_[2013.02.01_12.18.31]

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_02.30_[2013.02.01_12.21.39]

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_04.29_[2013.02.01_12.44.22]

It’s unreadable, but if you really squint, it almost matches the Japanese. That’s a success, right?

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_04.34_[2013.02.01_13.32.02] [Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_04.35_[2013.02.01_13.32.10]

This sign came up quite a few more times in this sequence in the same position, so all Commie would have had to do is copy/paste the typesetting, but they didn’t for some reason. Oh well, I wasn’t expecting the second screen to even be bothered with.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_05.39_[2013.02.01_14.05.07]

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_06.53_[2013.02.01_14.19.47]

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_07.03_[2013.02.01_14.24.49]

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_10.13_[2013.02.01_15.44.49]

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_12.44_[2013.02.01_16.02.12]

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_18.23_[2013.02.01_16.58.27]

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_23.35_[2013.02.01_21.02.27]

Minimal effort was put into the typesetting this episode.



Script Review


[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_01.30_[2013.02.01_12.19.48] [Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_01.32_[2013.02.01_12.19.54]

Look up what surging means, watch the OP again, and then fix this.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_01.34_[2013.02.01_12.20.01] [Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_01.36_[2013.02.01_12.20.08]

back back back it up

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_01.46_[2013.02.01_12.20.25]

If you want to use “expectation” in the singular, you better have a good reason for it.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_01.59_[2013.02.01_12.20.43]

“Is saw your smile in passing” <- past tense

“and want to hug you” <- present tense

Why are you doing this, Commie?

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_02.08_[2013.02.01_12.21.06] [Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_02.11_[2013.02.01_12.21.13]

That’s nice. Next episode, could you try translating this as a real sentence?


[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_21.58_[2013.02.01_21.03.43] [Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_22.00_[2013.02.01_21.03.50]

It’s episode 4. Has no one realized this is gibberish? How the fuck does a record “swell and break”? Just fucking answer me that, Commie.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_22.05_[2013.02.01_21.04.58]

Am I supposed to interpret this as “the grooves will cause another tune to play”? Cuz that’s what I got out of it after I stopped laughing at this shitty, shitty translation and really tried to wrap my brain around it.

TL Note: I actually did break down in laughter by this line. It’s that fucking bad.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_22.12_[2013.02.01_21.06.47]

The word is “dryer”. You use “drier” when comparing dryness. You know, like your “Your mother’s vagina has been drier than a desert ever since that third abortion.”

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_22.28_[2013.02.01_21.09.28]

You can take off glasses, but you take out contacts.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_22.32_[2013.02.01_21.10.03]

No it didn’t, you fucking idiots. When her contacts came out, the world became blurry to her. It didn’t fucking dissolve. Holy fucking christballs you’re stupid.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_22.39_[2013.02.01_21.10.35]

What is this even saying?


These are some of the worst karaoke translations I’ve ever seen, and I’ve seen some really goddamn bad ones.



Main Script.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_00.49_[2013.02.01_12.18.03]

This would be perfect if there was anything in the context to indicate he called her a princess often enough for it to ring true as a nickname.

But hey, make up whatever ya want, Commie.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_03.19_[2013.02.01_12.23.30]

“gentlebird”? I guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

This line is shit because you abused character tricks. Yes, Dera is over-the-top, but not to the point where you need to shove four bits of character-specific language into one sentence (“grandiose”, “gentlebird”, “worries not”, “such trifling”). This is the very definition of trying too hard. And that’s a theme repeated throughout this release.

Limit it to two pieces in a normal sentence, and three for longer ones. This stands out too much, and not even close to in a good way.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_03.34_[2013.02.01_12.31.32]

Here’s the litmus test for normal edits (where character/context don’t force it to be specialized): “would a human ever say this?”

And like most shitty edits, this one fails that test.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_04.27_[2013.02.01_12.33.05]

I know you think you’re being clever here, but idiom-visual matching only works when… the visual matches the idiom. While Dera did fall, he didn’t fall from anything, meaning you were really close to getting this right, but didn’t end up hitting it.

I know you kept with it because who doesn’t like feeling smart? But when the only person you’re fooling is yourself…

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_04.54_[2013.02.01_13.33.15]

Oh, he’s a southern gentleman now?

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_05.32_[2013.02.01_14.01.48]

Interesting decision to turn “happi” into “jackets”. If you can make it work, that’s fine, but considering the episode’s subplot revolves around a pun involving the Japanese word, I really wanna see how you handle it.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_05.34_[2013.02.01_14.04.21]

Being English words in a Commie release must be suffering.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_05.54_[2013.02.01_14.05.45] [Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_05.56_[2013.02.01_14.05.51]

“Not dislike, but…”

Yeah, humans don’t speak like that.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_06.23_[2013.02.01_14.07.09]

>my queen

You mean “a queen” or “my future queen”. As-is, you’re saying Dera is looking for a woman to make into his queen, in the sense of becoming his wife. And that’s obviously not right at all. Well, perhaps not obvious to you…

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_06.46_[2013.02.01_14.15.59] [Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_06.48_[2013.02.01_14.16.13]

That’s not even a comeback. Did you even try to edit this shit?

How you have it is: “All old-timers are embarrassed by you.” // “You’re old too.”

The comeback doesn’t make sense because he wouldn’t be applying the embarrassment to Mamedai, since Mamedai would just respond with “Yeah, those faggy pink bunny ears do embarrass me.”

I’d like to put the blame for this on the editor only bothering to edit the script without visual/auditory clues, but if he’d watched any of the previous episodes, he’d know this makes no sense. Excuses can only go so far, Commie.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_08.32_[2013.02.01_15.38.37]

And just why would that make her feel better? Is it really that hard to take a second and consider what it is you’re writing down before you ship it off as good to go?

Try something like “Your innocence is a breath of fresh air.” Oh, what’s that? Yes it is possible to turn Japanese into English. You should try it sometime.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_09.03_[2013.02.01_15.42.13]

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_09.09_[2013.02.01_15.41.09]

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_09.15_[2013.02.01_15.41.20]

Not that I’d ever be so bold as to doubt your translator’s skills, but I don’t think the class solely consists of 6 people.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_11.11_[2013.02.01_15.52.45]

Do you know why they’re called portable shrines? Funny story, that. It’s cuz they move.

The way this is phrased implies that the “portable shrines” are not portable at all, but rather something you go to visit at a fixed destination (like a temple or something).


~Halfway there~



[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_13.14_[2013.02.01_16.28.12] [Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_13.18_[2013.02.01_16.28.24] [Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_13.20_[2013.02.01_16.28.32]


A “happi” is a thing, and the happi/happiness (she says it in Engrish for chrissake) joke works perfectly if you use that word. The word’s already in the Oxford Dictionary so I don’t see the aversion to using it. (Isn’t your “rule” that you can use Japanese words as long as they’re in an English dictionary? You were quite vocal about that.)

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_15.29_[2013.02.01_16.50.12]

When you’re cutely pointing something out, it’s cuter to not be overly specific (hey man, I don’t make the rules, that’s just how people talk).

“Shiori, your nose.”

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_16.18_[2013.02.01_16.52.52]

That’s not how you address people.

“Oh. Hi, Miss Florist.”

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_00.40_[2013.02.01_16.55.49] [Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_17.05_[2013.02.01_16.55.25]

The whole point of this part is that the line at the beginning of the episode is supposed to match the line here. Did you miss what was happening in the episode or something?

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_20.55_[2013.02.01_20.43.02]

>You know

I don’t think she did know. Why would you use that phrase? And you don’t need to say “we” bought it “together”. It’s kind of implied by the “we”.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_21.29_[2013.02.01_20.44.56] [Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_21.30_[2013.02.01_20.45.00] [Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_21.31_[2013.02.01_20.45.05] [Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_21.36_[2013.02.01_20.44.49]

This was probably the hardest section of the entire show to edit properly. It’s complete gibberish, yet Commie and Mazui released it like this, which indicates they just took the “fuck it” train away from the line and didn’t look back.

And I can see why — this line’s terrible. Honestly, neither I nor the QCs I asked in GotWoot could figure out what to do with it. Took me begging the #whine-subs channel for advice to finally come up with a line for that last screen (thanks, puddi).

“Anko’s a little angel, isn’t she?” while still not perfect, is about the best we could come up with to get across the sentiment while actually being English.

If you don’t get what’s wrong with this sequence of lines, I’m gonna give you a length explanation. Feel free to skip it.

One of the subplots in this show is finding out who Anko wants to have stick their uncircumcised penis in her mouth socket. The audience and the characters (minus Anko’s retarded-as-fuck, mochi-loving sister) are led to believe that it’s one of the boys in her class, when in actuality *surprise!* it’s another one of the boys in her class she likes instead. In this scene, that’s revealed.

Dishwasher-blonde is all “OMG I can’t believe like it’s the nerdy boy Anko wants to fingerbang her” and spacey-chan is all “Yeah, I know, yo desu”. But then fucking dipshit-chan is all “lol wut r u talking abouts let me in on this conversation”. So dishwater-blonde has to come up with some roundabout way to answer her accurately without giving up the “secret”.

Suffice to say, “Anko’s a good girl” comes out of nowhere and makes no sense, even though it’s the literal translation. And while I can sympathize with Commie and Mazui for not being able to handle it, that doesn’t mean leaving shitgrish in a script is acceptable.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_21.47_[2013.02.01_20.57.38] [Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_21.49_[2013.02.01_20.57.44]

What do you mean “anew”? The point of his little dialogue is that you don’t know what the flower on the other path is going to be like, so how could you say it’s blooming “anew”?

The context you create makes no sense when taking the sentence into consideration. Bad, bad, bad.

[Commie] Tamako Market - 04 [4BC1E208].mkv_snapshot_23.31_[2013.02.01_21.01.16]

“the oak trees”? I can’t tell whether you think she’s referring to a specific set or if you just don’t know what the definite article is.



Watchability: Watchable.

Visual grade: C

Script grade: D

Overall grade: D+

I don’t see why you’d bother with this when Mazui releases better subs in a shorter timeframe.

Try not to be so shit for the episode 5 translation party. Can you manage that at least, Commie?
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skiddiks says:

Someone sounds frustrated.

Dark_Sage says:

I don’t like seeing Lady English abused. :(

Internette says:

Looks like I’m just in time for the kneejerk slapfight to start another round. I’m looking forward to the spectacle.

Dark_Sage says:

I like the astroturfing especially. Four devs currently. How many more can they throw at me?

Xythar says:

The base of the Joy-ket pun is Jacket, not Market, you nincompoop.

I’m sorry that I put more effort into editing this show than you. I really am.

SoupRKnowva says:

I’d be sorry too if I was you, the show stinx.

Xythar says:

I actually like it a lot.

stgmefly says:

Xythar <3

Dark_Sage says:

I know you put more effort in. But that’s because I don’t take four hours to edit a show. Maybe you should’ve taken five.

Xythar says:

Maybe you should take a little longer to ensure half your edits don’t leave in shitty half-finished lines that don’t mean anything and the other half don’t wreck the original meaning of the sentence.

Dark_Sage says:

I know you put that image together to prove a point, but I don’t think it actually shows what you think it shows.

Xythar says:

Obviously it’s not going to show that to you. You’re biased towards your own editing choices, which is why held off until next week to review Commie so that you could write the review before you edited for GotWoot, just like you said you would on the Review Queue:
“There is a very small timeframe of ~12 hours for each episode where I feel I can review Commie/Mazui’s releases with the least amount of bias. (Since I edit for GotWoot and tend to be full of myself, I may be predisposed toward *my* choices for a given line, rather than what makes the most sense from a specific group’s standpoint. One way to minimize this bias is to review a release BEFORE I edit for GW.)”

Oh, wait.

To be honest, it’s a joke that you think you can review other groups’ releases for this show in the first place, so this is really just the icing on the cake. Anyone who reads this review with an ounce of sense in their heads will be able to see that.

It is cute the way you don’t know what “You know,” means, though.

Dark_Sage says:

Good point. Pulled the Tamako reviews from the Review Summary.

skiddiks says:

From what I could tell, your editing seems to be worse than Mazui’s lack of it.

Dark_Sage says:


skiddiks says:

From the single screenshots, your editing looked better than Mazui’s for the most part. What your editing was lacking, in my opinion, was flow. The three dialogue examples show what I’m pertaining too. Not only did the lines not flow well, but they sounded genuinely bad.

Dark_Sage says:

I’m going to need more than that to know where to focus my editing in future episodes. I’m not going to shoehorn nonsense puns into a script just because I can, if that’s what you’re looking for.

Xythar says:

The common sense / common nonsense thing was a pun in the Japanese, you know*. 季節感 (sense of the seasons, trends, times, etc) rhymes with 頓珍漢 (absurdity, nonsense, etc)

You can see Mazui tried to play off it too.

“bird of many colors” was also a pun in the Japanese because he stresses the “tori” in “irotoridori”.

* This particular usage of “you know”, despite how it may look on the surface, does not imply the person being spoken to already knows what they are being told – quite the opposite, in fact. English is a weird language like that.

skiddiks says:

1. Commie and Mazui both attempt to play off the pun. Mazui’s sucked, but more-or-less got the point off. Commie’s was perfect. “Are you nuts?” doesn’t really flow well in the conversation. If you don’t care about shoehorning puns, you could’ve just gone with “‘Holiday spirit’ my ass”.

2. This had bad flow in all sections. The first line is fine, but “And society is…” doesn’t sound like a natural response to it. The line after that is fine on its own, but it flows poorly with the Previous line. “And society is… Everyone is everyone, and society is society”. That just sounds plain bad, and then it doesn’t make much sense as a response to the first line.

3. Not bad, just not as good as Mazui’s clever line.

Dark_Sage says:

1. Well I actually wasn’t aware it was a pun. I don’t see why “Are you nuts?” is bad, but I could’ve made it stronger.

2. Yeah, I agree. I fucked up here.

3. I can’t really do much about that.

Not sure why this turned into a GotWoot post, actually, but whatever. Unlike some people, I’ll take criticism and use it to improve myself. If people think my flow’s off, then I’ll pay it more heed in the future.

Aoi-chan says:

Congratulations, another review of non-issues.

Dark_Sage says:

I can taste the q’s already.

Anon-kun says:

Incoming Commie asspain and shitstorm.

njd09 says:

Welp, time to turn on auto-refresh.

anon9 says:

> “But today we also have these special Tamaya Joy-ket mochi!”
> First off, the show is Tamako Market, not Tamaya Market, so the base of your pun is already wrong.

Er … the name of the mochi shop is Tamaya. It has nothing to do with the name of the anime. Your complaint about the happi/jacket thing still stands.

Dark_Sage says:

Tamaya Market -> Tamaya Joy-ket

That makes sense how?

Xythar says:

“Why is it called a McDonalds Happy Meal? It’s not owned by some guy called McDonald and I can’t imagine any other possible situation in which you would put the name of a store in front of one of their products”

Dark_Sage says:

Are you saying the mochi shop is called Tamaya Market?

Xythar says:

Where the hell do you keep getting “Market” from? I’m really starting to wonder if you hit your head yesterday or something.

Hoseboy says:

Braindamage might make him less retarded.

Dark_Sage says:

Tama__ ___ket. Though I’m willing to believe that was unintentional and you simply didn’t notice it.

Nyangoro says:

I thought the “joy-ket” was a pun on the word jacket, lol.

Dark_Sage says:

Oh, I also got that out of it too. Just figured it was two levels deep. Review updated.

Xythar says:

I assumed people would interpret the pun in the very obvious way it was intended instead of tying it back to the show title through several obscure leaps of moon logic, yes.

Eagle1337 says:

Time for moar popcornz.

Get butt devastated, Xyfag.

Hairy says:

What happened to the F?

Dark_Sage says:

I’ve been told by multiple people (that I trust) on IRC the review didn’t read like an F, so I adjusted the score accordingly. I’ve done this for a number of reviews in the past too.

It’s still not a good release (honestly, Xythar, it’s not), but this is probably more in line with what people would expect the score to be from the review’s content.

Xythar says:

If making a good release involves dumbing down the lines by sticking to some kind of arbitrary characterisation limit then you can expect plenty more bad releases from me in the future.

Dark_Sage says:

The line would have been fine if you took “grandiose” out. Gentlebird is strong enough as-is without needing to drag something else in there. Part of editing is knowing when to edit and when not to edit, and if you make the subs a shrine to your own arrogance, it’s not going to end well. You tried hard for this script. I could tell that. But your goal is not to impress others with how much you tried. The goal is to give the viewers a good experience, and I don’t think you hit that.

Now you can disagree with that all you want. Swear up and down that I’m retarded and I don’t know what I’m talking about. Fine. But you know enough about me that I’m not saying this as some kind of personal campaign against you — I honestly think you overreached.

Xythar says:

Grandoise was a necessary part of the original line. He’s saying that he himself is so vast and generous, small details like how much mochi he ate don’t matter to him (and has the double meaning that he’s fat). I’d take any of the other words out before that one.

But it’s ridiculous to say in the first place that three pieces of characterisation are A-OK but four is taking it too far. That’s an arbitrary limit you invented that nobody else gives a shit about. In the end, I edit the script to the way I’d like to read it, and I’m sure most editors do the same. You talk about me making the subs a shrine to my own arrogance? Take a look in the mirror.

FalseDawn says:

Actually, I agree with D_S on this one. It’s bordering on purple prose: – which isn’t exactly something D_S invented. There’s also another name for it when you have too many odd/long words in a row, but it eludes me right now.

It’s sometimes very difficult to strike the right balance when you’re characterising and I’ve had to re-edit lines over and over, either from going too far one way or not far enough. I don’t think it’s anything to get uptight about – just mark it down as one that failed to hit the bullseye and move on.

If it helps, one of D_S’s reviews of an edit I did told me I put too many idioms in. I didn’t quite understand that one, but I took it on board and endeavoured to do better next time :D

njd09 says:

As do I. I don’t like that line at all – I’d say it’s by far the worst line in the review. I don’t know about the arbitrary limit of words Dark_Sage set, but there’s certainly too many in that sentence. Just one is enough to get the point across, honestly, but as it is now, it just looks like the line was put in to rack up bonus points.

Xythar says:

Ordinarily I’d agree with you, but you can’t just look at these lines in a vacuum without considering the character and context. Something that’d be terrible grammar normally might be completely normal for a character who speaks strangely, for instance.

In this case, I wouldn’t just write anyone’s lines that way, but Dela is a walking caricature. He exists to be over-the-top, and his lines are over-the-top to match.

He’s by far my favourite character in the show, so I have a lot of fun writing his dialogue. I hope other people appreciate what I’m going for as well.

Justinnnnnn says:

I do, Xythar. I’m with you.

Xythar says:


FalseDawn says:

Yes but… how do I explain it? It’s not obvious that it’s all the character and not you just editing horribly, if that makes sense. Consider the tag [sic] which is used in many literary sources to basically show that it’s the character saying things that has the strange diction, not the writer of the article. Obviously you can’t do that in fansubs, but you can make it more obvious where the character is being overly pretentious. Italics are quite handy (uh-oh, think I’m turning into D_S) or a sarcastic turn of phrase along with the phrases used.

From the little character sketch I have of him (don’t watch the series itself), I can see him being over-the-top – but not grammatically awkward. In fact, I’d think he’s wittier than that and a lot of what he says, while overly verbose, would be snippier and more telling.

Does that make the blindest bit of sense or have I failed to hit the mark?

Beckett says:

Another 100+ comment post? I see Herkz has yet to comment, that should be good for another 20 easy.

Vale says:

You know, people say I’m a very biased reviewer, but at least I try to maintain the illusion that I’m not.

Dark_Sage says:

It’s funny how people bitch about bias when my results aren’t what they want to see and then they’re suddenly silent when the results are what they want. I wonder where your complaints of bias were when I gave Commie the nod for Kotoura-san, [email protected], and Senran Kagura. I even recommended you over UTW-Mazui for Nekomonogatari. In fact, there isn’t a show this season I haven’t recommended you for, except maybe Tamako (and due to Xythar’s remarks, I just made all my Tamako reviews non-canon).

What, exactly then, would make me “unbiased” in your eyes? A+’s for everything you do? Admin status on my site? I think it speaks volumes that despite your constant attempts to portray me as an idiot and a liar, I haven’t let it affect who I honestly think has the best subs for a given show. Maybe instead of kneejerking over a review that portrays you unfavorably, you should consider why I said what I did. May be an eye-opener.

Xythar says:

>What, exactly then, would make me “unbiased” in your eyes?

Not having written this review.

I honestly believed your reviews were pretty solid before today, even the ones of my own work, but there isn’t a single point raised in this review I’d agree with outside the karaoke section. Some of them just boggle the mind.

That’s why I don’t feel like I can take your reviews seriously anymore, especially when your own work is so subpar by comparison.

Dark_Sage says:

Well that’s unfortunate to hear, Xythar. But if this is the cut-off point, it is what it is.

Beckett says:

Hahaha. “Your reviews were totally fair until you came out with a bad one, now you’re an asshole.” Well played sir.

Xythar says:

This is the man who, until other people on IRC managed to convince him otherwise, thought it was appropriate to give the script a grade shared by Hadena, that one Shinsekai script which was full of Engrish and lines that made no sense, and that one TLRD script that was missing punctuation for half the lines.

If you can read this review and honestly tell me that the conclusion is appropriate for the script (especially as it compares to others), then by all means continue to read this site. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but in this case I believe I’m in the right.

P32L says:

Mmn. Even the C-grade scripts have, you know, grammatical/ spelling errors. Half the script review is qualms with style, a quarter is legitimate minor issues, and the rest is just… silly. Not your best review, frankly, Sage.

flipr says:

Maybe DS expects more from you? I might be the only one that feels this way, but the letter grade doesn’t seem to mean a whole lot to me. This review is generally in character for him: the things he complains about are things he tends to care about and even with the grade at an F, it’s just his usual scoring method: scripts tend to be great, good, or bad scoring respectively a, b, or f with the occasional c or d for meh scripts.

Even if I don’t agree with all aspects of the review, DS seems to be _fair_ in this one. He likes his characters to sound like people rather than characters. He is quite clear about this opinion, and he is totally entitled to it.

flipr says:

I’m sorry for brutally slaughtering the English language in my previous comment. Feel free to disregard it.

Dark_Sage says:

The English was fine.

Xythar says:

That makes no sense, though. It’s supposed to be an absolute rank comparing the release to all others, and the very fact that I’m apparently capable of turning out both A and F tier scripts all on my own doesn’t even make sense. It’s not like I lobotomised myself over the past year.

Dela is an obese, spherical bird with stubby wings who can barely fly and who talks with a ridiculous haughty accent in the voice of Kayneth El-Melloi. Why would his character not come across as exaggerated?

He can have his opinion, but if our tastes don’t align, there’s no point in me reading his reviews anymore.

flipr says:

Honestly, I just wanted to contribute to the shitfest.

I agree that you generally turn out great scripts. This wasn’t one of them. I just find it hard to believe that you’re actually surprised by DS being hyperbolic in a review.

Xythar says:

Hyperbole in the review is fine. Hyperbole in the grade is not.

[brainchild] apparently i’m braindead now
[brainchild] and just fell asleep during qc or something
[brainchild] and let this horrible, horrible script pass by me

(brainchild has also put out a number of high B and A tier scripts before)

I guess we were both asleep on the job that day?

Dark_Sage says:

Yeah, brainchild’s Maoyuu script was great, wasn’t it?

Xythar says:

Two can play the “judge a person by a single example of their work” game, you know.

Dark_Sage says:

I love how this is consistently the only thing you and your ilk ever bring up against me. Yeah, that’s what happens when you edit an Arashi script without a TLC. You’ve been skulking on my site for years and read how many Hadena reviews now? Is it really still that big of a surprise?

Xythar says:

It’s almost like I replied to a pointless piece of illogic designed solely to piss off the reader with one of my own.

Glaive says:

I have no intention of getting involved in your little bout here, but I can’t help but feel compelled to ask you a question, Xythar. How would *you* have graded your script? We’re our own biggest critics, after all~

Xythar says:

Probably around B+ for this episode. There are a few lines in the release I’m still not completely happy with, but I haven’t really seen anyone do them better.

I feel I’ve done around an A- job overall, though. I’m happy with most of the characterisation I got across and I feel like this one of my best efforts so far (in no small part thanks to our excellent translator for this show).

Dark_Sage says:

You’re out of your mind.

Kenshin_sama says:

I agree, there’s no way I’d consider this B+. The effort is there, but the quality is not up to par. I’m surprised that this was blue posted on Nyaa.

Xythar says:

If you have a problem with the NT A+, tell that to the experienced fansubber (not me or anyone affiliated with Commie, by the way) who compared ep2 across all three groups and decided Commie’s had the best editing and TL.

Xythar says:

To each his own, then.

I liked your ep1 a lot, but I felt like the later episodes started to get a bit dull by comparison. Still solidly B-tier though.

Troyen says:

I don’t think it’s a great script, but outside of the karaoke section there aren’t a lot of major grammatical errors. Compare to the previous D release

Hiryuu’s D had all kinds of pluralization errors, duplicate words, misused words, missing words and so on. There are a few tense mismatches and not-so-good word choices in this Tamako release, but not nearly on the same level.

This seems closer to a B to C+ depending on how strict you score it. Certainly not an F, since you can actually read and understand almost all the lines.

Dark_Sage says:

1. It’s not an F. It was argued up.
2. The karaoke dropped the script a full tier for being straight gibberish. People can try to argue that 16% of an episode doesn’t matter if they want, but I don’t buy it.
3. Tamako reviews were dropped from the canon, so it doesn’t even matter beyond any sore feelings that may have arisen.

Troyen says:

Right, but looking at the script grade alone, a “D” would imply “below-average”, or barely watchable. You can read it and understand it, but it doesn’t stand out as great.

Looking through your other reviews, it doesn’t fit in with your other D scripts at all. I mean, the Hiryuu script D had gems like these:×720-H264-CE205670.mkv_snapshot_17.02_2013.01.28_20.27.42.jpg×720-H264-CE205670.mkv_snapshot_16.34_2013.01.28_20.25.23.jpg×720-H264-CE205670.mkv_snapshot_09.15_2013.01.28_20.01.36.jpg

I don’t see how this script isn’t an order of magnitude better than that one, yet they have the same grade.

Totally agree that the visuals should drag down the overall grade, and I was especially disappointed with the lack of typesetting.

The scores might not be “canon” but they’re still tagged as such and it messes up your objectivity if your scoring isn’t consistent.

(Disclaimer: I’m actually following Mazui for this show, not Commie.)

Dark_Sage says:

It’s not tagged as such — it won’t show up in the review summary. Unless you’re talking about the category?

And no, the visuals didn’t impact the script grade. The karaoke script did. Everyone’s acting like that shit doesn’t ever factor into my reviews, but it does. And when you fuck up on easy-mode children’s songs, that’s not good. This is in-line with everything else I’ve written.

I understand the desire for revisionism, but that ain’t happening. The release sucked and no amount of defense force-ing is gonna change that.

shark0week0 says:

I like your release from a casual standpoint, but I can’t say this particular episode had an “excellent” translation – around five minor errors I think. The bird’s my favorite part of the show, though, so I appreciate the flair.

Xythar says:

We had a backup translator for this episode since the real one was away at a funeral. He’s already pointed out the errors to me and I’ve fixed them for the batch, though as you said, nothing too serious.

I actually asked Dark_Sage about a week ago not to review this episode in particular since it wasn’t going to be done with the same staff as all the others, but I guess that conveniently slipped his mind.

Given how he even broke his own objectivity rule for how the reviews would be done, though, I can’t imagine how anyone could consider this review objective or representative.

Dark_Sage says:

It didn’t conveniently slip my mind, it inconveniently did so. Or do you really think I wanted to hear you bitch about it? I also forgot about Hatsuyuki-Hybrid’s Vividred and had to be reminded to stop my review halfway through. You have the logs for that.

If I don’t write shit down, I forget. That’s why I’ve started marking episodes in the review queue — so I can check it and remember. But hey, whatever fits your persecution narrative.

Xythar says:

I don’t know why you do any of the things you do, man.

It’s a shame if you didn’t like my work for the episode, but nothing in this review has convinced me that there is anything wrong with it (well, I might change “Not dislike, but…” to “I don’t dislike them, but…” for the batch, but that’s it). I edit for myself first and foremost, not for you, and while the rules of English grammar are relatively concrete I don’t see anything in this review that suggests I’ve done anything beyond edit differently to how you did.

Xythar says:

Addendum: “I don’t dislike them, but…” is apparently too long for the audio. Line stays, as it’s clear enough anyway.

flipr says:

Seiji-kun is so sugoi~~~

but rly tho, you should stop being so biased against bad releases, sho nuff ya digg?

Vale says:

Writing a review of a show that you yourself work on and you’re emotionally attached to, right a day after a huge shitstorm against Commie, and surprisingly reaching the conclusion that the release is utter shit.
Admitting yourself that your Tamako reviews are not to be taken seriously.
I’ve never cared when you said a release I worked on was bad (by the way, I don’t work on Tamako). I wouldn’t even care if you happened to write this review before that A+ set a nine-inch rusty nail in your butt.
I just find it amusing that you still so fiercely argue for… well, I’m not really sure what, not anymore.

Dark_Sage says:

You got reels over there? For some reason it seems like you’re projecting.

My Tamako criticisms are still valid. I just took them out of the canonical scores. I should’ve done that in the first place (or avoided reviewing them altogether), but I can’t go back in time. What exactly is your issue with that?

Morz says:

Can Commie staff take their brutal anal detestation elsewhere?

Sick of the constant bitching, it’s not like everyone who watches fansubs is going to read this and think Commie is shit; we already know that.

P32L says:

If you’re not interested in hearing anyone else’s opinions, you really needn’t read beyond the comments header.

Dark_Sage says:

So if you read the comments you have to agree with everything the people in them say? Great logic.

jabashque says:

“hearing anyone else’s opinions” = “you have to agree with everything [they] . . . say”
Great logic, unless I’m missing something here.

Dark_Sage says:

The implication was that Morz can’t possibly take issue with Commie’s tears because he decided to read the comments section. I think that argument is bullshit, though I could have phrased it better.

P32L says:

Except it really wasn’t. The suggestion was that if he couldn’t hack reading Commie staff’s “brutal anal detestation”, then he shouldn’t. I’m not sure how much fucking clearer I can be.

Dark_Sage says:

Why should he cut himself off from the comments section just because a few cunts can’t stop whining? I thought his opinion was fair, because it really is getting old.

flipr says:

Ah, Commie’s opinions are the only ones that matter — it makes so much more sense now.

I won’t pretend to speak for Morz, so I’ll present my opinion on the matter. It’s usually great to see how other people react to the reviews. Many comments are also entertaining. However, in this and another recent post, the comments have been hijacked by herkz (only in the first one), Xythar, and Vale who have effectively killed any other conversation. This is annoying to say the least.

Shirt says:

>killed any other conversation

There’s minimal conversation otherwise, man.

Kenshin_sama says:

Less conversation is better than bad conversation.

Anon says:

Whenever there’s a review that gives another group the edge over Commie, Commie staff members always hijack the comments and call tomfoolery.

Shirt says:

Do you even read the reviews to begin with?

Dark_Sage says:

I imagine he does, because that’s exactly what you do.

P32L says:

Hey? He was complaining that people were whinging about the review in the comments. I merely suggested that if they don’t wish to see people complain about the review, they shouldn’t read the comments. I fail to see how you could have interpreted my comment as you did at all.

Beckett says:

I mostly agree except for the “Commie is shit” part. For the most part they’re solid, on this site they actually get the nod on quite a few shows and I think that’s fair. An argument can be made that at least some of those are because they have no competent competition, but still. The problem isn’t that Commie is shit, the problem is that a few Commie members (who are mostly silent whenever they get a good review) absolutely rage any time anything negative is said about them.

We get it guys, you believe your subs are perfect and completely beyond criticism. But I can’t be the only one who’s getting tired of seeing the same bullshit every time it happens. It’s the same thing every time: Commie gets a good review and they have almost nothing to say; Commie gets a bad review and suddenly Dark Sage is a fucking idiot who has no idea what he’s talking about; Commie gets another good review and now Dark Sage knows what he’s talking about again, he’s not a moron anymore. It’s old, it’s tired, give it a goddamn rest already.

aers says:

but arguing on the internet is literally the only reason to fansub

FalseDawn says:

It’s the only reason to internet, isn’t it?

Xythar says:

There are plenty of negative Commie reviews I haven’t said a thing about.

My issue is with this review and the non-points made within.

Dark_Sage says:

No, your issue is that you decided you’re above criticism now.

Xythar says:

My issue is that part of the reason I work so hard on my editing is precisely because I know I’m going to be reviewed. Every time I feel like I could just be lazy and write a generic line I think “nah, someone will probably call me out on this, so I’m going to put in the extra effort and make a script that’s up to my and everyone else’s standards.”

And now you say that no, bland scripts are the way to go, and give it an utterly ridiculous grade that I can’t imagine even you really thinking is appropriate.

I’m perfectly open to actual criticism, but everything in this article is either “sorry, dumb your script down below my arbitrary charactisation limit”, “this thing that people say all the time would actually be said by nobody because ???” or failing to understand basic language constructs like “you know”.

Dark_Sage says:

Seems to me like you should sub for the viewers and not the reviewers. My reviews should be a point where you can examine what you’ve done and see whether or not you’ve been creating an enjoyable, quality experience for people. They should not be your end goal.

Xythar says:

Time to put back honorifics, leave all commonly known words in Japanese, and literally translate every line, I guess. That seems to be what the viewers want.

Don’t worry though, I won’t make the mistake of subbing for the reviewers anymore either.

Icec0ld says:

I’m a viewer.

I don’t want that.

Xythar says:

Majority rule is clearly the only fair way now that the “unbiased” method of judging fansub quality is apparently “would I have edited this differently?”

Icec0ld says:

I think if you were gonna do a true majority ruling you’d be releasing Hadena quality scripts :P

(Good work goes unnoticed by the masses)

Xythar says:

Apparently this is a Hadena quality script, so I’m halfway there already!

Icec0ld says:

Isn’t par an F for them? :P

CDF says:

how does it feel to be in minority?

Xythar says:

Being in the minority isn’t always a bad thing. For instance, he’s also in the minority of people who can speak correct English.

CDF says:

Speaking correct English here isn’t a requirement, y’know. :P

Dark_Sage says:

If you don’t want to sub for the viewers, who exactly are you subbing for now?

If you say yourself, I’d like you to hold yourself to that and not release any scripts in the future. Wouldn’t want you to be a hypocrite.

pepperoni says:

OK wait what? I know this reply is several days late but isn’t what you wrote basically what Commie does in general to begin with?

Until I read this review on how much work you put in Tamako for months I stopped getting anything related to Commie due to literal bullshit that and taking honorifics out both things that just ticks me off. Honorifics is somewhat OK if done like gg’s Magi.

So although the typset is very good by you guys at Commie I just cannot stand the literal TL bullshit. I might take a look at some releases once again.

pepperoni says:

Mistake, I meant liberal not literal my previous post.

“We get it guys, you believe your subs are perfect and completely beyond criticism.”
No they don’t?
stop talking out of your ass even if its a thing here.

Dark_Sage says:

Commie Defense Force so mad ;_;

Assasin_Cross says:

Fanboy so mad

hey says:

atleast i dont watch subs lULZ

Dark_Sage says:

Agreed, though I don’t think you’d understand why.

fnord says:

My time is too limited to waste it on arguing about such a review.

Dark_Sage says:

I’m sure it is.

fnord says:

If I could explain to you why this review is a farce in ten or fifteen minutes, I would. But as that is grossly unrealistic, I’m not going to start.

In the end, time is the only thing that is never coming back. Money is easily replaced, experiences relived.

Time is lost forever.

Dark_Sage says:

I saw that cop-out coming.

fnord says:

This comment was less pitiful when it hadn’t yet been edited by you to contain another provocation.

Dark_Sage says:

The only pitiful thing here is that you think your “You’re wrong but I won’t tell you why” argument holds any value. Not that I’d expect any better of you.

Dark_Sage says:

q q q

Jayz says:

I don’t understand how that little girls fingers work. Every time I see them it’s like looking at an optical illusion. Just can’t wrap my noodle around them :(

yo says:

Well, reaching the 100 comment mark was pretty easy given this absurdity. Wish it wasn’t for some of the reasons seen here though.

stushi says:

This might be totally inappropriate, considering everything…but I couldn’t ignore it:
“Is saw your smile in passing” Is

Solaristics says:

Oh man, this is getting good. Time to grab some popcorn.

Omex says:

darksage when you fix the theme/comment system can we have a poll on every article to vote whether this auto displays as top comment or not good feature imo

Marow says:

The only thing I disagree on, aside from the “Joy-ket” you now seem to understand, is this:

“Try something like “Your innocence is a breath of fresh air.” Oh, what’s that? Yes it is possible to turn Japanese into English. You should try it sometime.”


“Seeing how slow you are on the uptake makes me feel a little better.”

Seeing how blonde girl got the hots for Tamako (or so we are lead to believe) it would probably feel better for her if Tamako is slow on the uptake.

But it could probably be phrased better, that’s for sure.

FalseDawn says:

I think the phrase we’re looking for is “feel better about myself”. That’d fix it.

FalseDawn says:

Okay, so I have read this review and read the comments and I think I’m finally ready to give my two cents to all this.

D_S and Xythar: You’re both wrong. And I’ll tl;dr why below:

@ D_S: I understand and agree with a lot of the points you make in this review, but you have gone a bit over-the-top in how important these mistakes are. Leaving the kara out (because it truly is awful), there are only two screenshots where you can call the grammar awkward. Yes, there are bits where the conversation doesn’t *exactly* follow (though, can be worked out) and where phrase and word choices aren’t *exactly* on the money, but how important are they really? From the screenshots only, I’d suggest this is a low C, though I’d imagine a number of good lines were missed, so maybe a low B, high C taking those into account. In summary, you only focus on the negative without colouring it with any positives, so it does come off as biased – especially if the original rating was an F.

@ Xythar: I can understand your reaction to this review, especially with its original rating, but you have to take these things on the chin. It’s very easy to get precious about something you spend a lot of time on and pour a lot of effort into, but you have to remember one thing – you can’t please everyone. You also don’t go out of your way to field any of the comments so your immediate reaction does come across as a little petulant. I’d follow D_S’s advice about not worrying about reviews and using them only as a bonus to tell you you’re on the right track (or otherwise, as the case may be). In short, a lot of good points are raised in this review about the structure of conversations in fansub editing and how the Devil is in the details, so don’t dismiss advice purely because you’ve been given an admittedly harsh, arbitrary grade.

Of course, if you really want to settle this, I suggest a pay-per-view boxing or wrestling showdown ^___^b

P32L says:

I’m afraid I’ve nothing to add to or take issue with your summation, and can do little more than whole-heartedly agree. My real gripe with the review is that it is presented to a different standard than others I’ve seen, with plenty of finicky, subjective screenshots that wouldn’t warrant inclusion in a usual review, with all the small-scale criticisms resulting in a still jarring conclusion. Even despite this the D-grade looks terribly incongruent compared to similarly ranked scripts. I shan’t say any more, as I’ve dwelt on this far too long. Far more interesting is the announcement of TL reviews, which will surely be a major boon to the reviews (if they last more than a season :P).

FalseDawn says:

If they even last a season*

I wouldn’t say they don’t warrant inclusion; they are all valid points after all. There’s just very little to offset the nitpicking negatives – either with crystal clear mistakes or with some positives to show it ain’t all bad.

erejnion says:

Around 30% tops could be counted as valid points, though.

Sapphi says:


Numero_6 says:

I totally agree. This review was clearly influenced by the last feud between D_S and Commies. Yes, they tend to put themselves on a pedestal, and yes, sometimes are hypocrite, but it’s not a reason to bash them like D_S has done in this review. Perharps waiting at least a week after the tempest before writing it should have been better. D+ is still a bit unfair, the original F was absolutely dishonest.

Dark_Sage says:

The original grade was a D-. It was an F for the script (I still don’t see how anyone could defend this script, but not like I can control literacy by myself).

Numero_6 says:

Well, I still don’t see how some of the remarks have sense.
“I don’t think the class solely consists of 6 people”. Wait, what?
1) Teacher says they should go to the museum when they have spare time.
2) Everyone agree.
3) The kids who have spare time in that moment (Momiji, Yuda etc.) decide going to the museum.
It’s obvious the girl speaking to Anko is talking about herself and the other four kids instead of the entire class (otherwise, she would have say “Right now we’re going”, without specifying names).

Dark_Sage says:

Part of Commie’s problem with this release is introducing unnecessary (incorrect, likely) information that confuses the purpose of each line. What is the point of “The whole class agreed too.”? There is none. It’s contextually irrelevant, so why would you force it in there?

Here’s what we had:

Our teacher said we should go check out the museum, so we were thinking about going together.
So far it’s me, Momiji-chan, Yuuko-chan… plus Tatsuya-kun and Yuzuki-kun, too!
Anko-chan, you’ll go too, won’t you?

Do you see the difference?

Xythar says:

I didn’t even edit that line, so I’m not sure why you think I’m introducing anything.

It makes perfect sense the way it’s written and I’m not in the habit of just randomly killing details because I feel they’re “unnecessary”.

Progeusz says:

Of course there is a point. It says that whole class appreciated teacher’s idea. They (two friends) said it to convince Anko that museum is fucking awesome. Then they invited her to go together.
Seeing how you gave Commie F at first, didn’t get Joy-ket pun (I think it was bad but still easy to understand) and were generally extremely nitpicky, I can’t say you were fair in this review, it looks like you were trying with all your might to diminish Commie, for whatever reason.

FalseDawn says:

That’s bordering on mistranslation now though. You’re not a script-writer, you’re an editor of a translation. You can’t change the script willy-nilly just because it doesn’t “fit”.

I’d actually make it one long sentence (kids do that, right?), so something like:

“The teacher suggested doing it in our own time,/and the whole class thought that was a good idea,/so me + all my little buddies are heading there now./Wanna tag?”

I’m so pro at this :D

Dark_Sage says:

You’re assuming Commie’s translator is right, which is perhaps the boldest assumption of this thread.

FalseDawn says:

Well, I might have questioned it, but if it bounced back to me like that, that’s how I’d choose to edit that section.

black21 says:

I don’t want to dig up any dead bodies but since commie is puffing with pride, this needs to be said:



She maybe a shadow of her former self,
but she is still a proud vampire.
That’s what she is.
There is no way she’d go for donuts instead.


Sure, she might be a dried up remnant, a mere shadow of her former self,
but this is still a proud vampire we’re talking about here.
And there’s absolutely no way she would find donuts irresistible

The context here is not whether or not she likes donuts or not. Is whether or not a proud vampire like her will choose donuts over sucking his blood.

This is around the quality commie is at right now, completely misunderstanding/mistranslating lines.

People didn’t hate your Girls Und Panzer because of the German. Is because the lines actually did suck and caused misunderstandings.

D_S is just warning you to get your shit together and that you are slipping into Hadena territory. Simple tough love. Giving you a F because that’s what you would be getting if you keep this shit up.

Oh btw, in case you need a reminder, he recommended Commie over Mazui for Nekomonogatari.

Futsuu says:

UTW might’ve translated that particular line better, sure, but contrary to what you believe, it wasn’t misunderstood or mistranslated – I’d simply assumed the implication was fairly obvious, considering the visual cues and the oh-so-important context. Well what do you know, turns out it wasn’t so obvious after all.

>Oh btw, in case you need a reminder, he recommended Commie over Mazui for Nekomonogatari.
And rightly so.

Aoi-chan says:

I don’t know if you are ESL or not, but the sentences mean the same thing. You should probably stop browsing the internet when you watch anime so you can actually interpret the sentences better.

Dark_Sage says:

Actually, they don’t. They’re functionally different. You can derive similar meanings from each with the context of the show, but they’re not equivalent.

Aoi-chan says:

Sentence 1: she is a shadow of her former self.
Sentence 2: but she is still a proud vampire.
Sentence 3/4: she would not find donuts irresistible.

How do you not understand what the sentences are saying. It’s pretty easy. Maybe you just can’t interpret things that have flow or something?

Dark_Sage says:

UTW-Mazui: “She’s a proud vampire, so there’s no way she’d go for donuts instead of my blood.”
Commie: “She’s a proud vampire, so there’s no way she’d find donuts irresistible.”

I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that rather than being retarded, you just don’t remember the scene.

Aoi-chan says:

If you’re going to bring up the scene, don’t bring it up out of context. If you’re going to say that it’s wrong, at least know what a double negative is.

If she is not going to find it irresistible, she’s finding it resistible. In that sense, it’s the same as what UTW had.

Dark_Sage says:

I’m not bringing it up out of context. I watched that episode like three times. I know exactly what happened.

Commie’s has nothing about Araragi’s blood. You have to derive it from the visuals/understanding their relationship. While it’s not a dealbreaker, you can’t say the two translations are the exact same.

FalseDawn says:

Man, I’m starting to sound like a D_S fanboy today…

D_S is right that they don’t equate. The fact she doesn’t find donuts irresistible isn’t the same as saying she wouldn’t pick donuts over blood. It’s not a specific enough implication for the line to follow the beginning section. I mean, what relevance does finding donuts irresistible have to do with pride as a vampire?

Nyangoro says:

All else being equal, lines with clear interpretations are better than those with multiple interpretations.

FalseDawn says:

HAHAHA dead bodies. I see what you did thar.

csb says:

Wow, no brutally buttdevastated mad herkz in this Commie review. Now that is kinda alarming.

Eagle1337 says:

Run D_S, run! He’s coming for you.

Nevreen says:

Falsedawn pretty much covered my opinion of this review. D_S was very nitpicky and harsh against a release that isn’t as bad as he makes it out to be (especially when you compare it against other scripts that got similar grades). On the other hand, and perhaps naturally so, Xythar is too dismissive of some valid points in the review, even though most of them aren’t as bad as D_S makes them out to be. I don’t want to step on D_S’ toes here, but I figure it’s worth taking a second look at the criticisms in the review (note: I haven’t watched this show at all, so there may be points of the review I can’t address due to not knowing the context). Disregarding the visuals and the kara script because those don’t seem to be the points of contention here.

1- Well, we’re off to a good start. Can’t really comment here without having watched the show.
2- This is a bit excessive, but it’s a very minor kind of error. I’d suggest changing the “worries not” for “does not worry” just to alleviate it a bit, but I wouldn’t count it as anything major against Commie.
3- The phrasing here could be improved, but there’s nothing particularly wrong with it.
4- I’d have to watch the scene to be sure, but I don’t think the use of the idiom here is wrong. I don’t have any qualms with the visual queue only partially lending itself to the idiom.
5- This is valid, although minor. Most people probably won’t notice the shift in characterization since it’s still pompous speech.
6- Not a criticism.
7- Would have to know what she’s thanking him for to offer a proper alternative, but this does sound a little awkward.
8- This is wrong and is the first major criticism I agree with. Might I propose “Not really, but…”?
9- This depends almost entirely on what the previous line was, but I feel the line is probably right. I get what D_S is saying, and if you take the line completely out of any context, he’d be right, but if Dera was already talking about being a vassal or something similar, there wouldn’t be any ambiguity with this line.
10- D_S is correct. This doesn’t make sense and needs to be rephrased.
11- D_S is right here too, though it’s a slightly more minor mistake. If you want to stick with this phrasing, go with “makes me feel a little better about myself.”
12- Disregarding D_S’ criticism of this line for a second, the “too” in the second screenshot doesn’t make sense. Nobody else agreed before them, so saying that the class also agreed is wrong. I’d probably go with something like “Everyone’s excited about it”, which would solve both my and D_S’ criticisms.
13- Relatively minor, but D_S is right. Changing “look” for “check out” would fix this.
14- This isn’t the most obvious pun, but it works if you don’t factor in how unfunny it is. My bigger concern is with the second line. Nobody, and I mean nobody, would have to explain that joy is the same thing as happiness. Explain the pun instead: “Joy-ket. As in a jacket that makes you happy, you know?”
15- Kinda minor, but I agree with D_S.
16- D_S is right (unless she was being excessively rude).
17- If these really are supposed to be echoes of each other, D_S is correct.
18- Unless they’re using “you know” to placate her or cause her to feel guilty, it is out of place. The “together” criticism is also valid, although minor since people do speak redundantly sometimes.
19- I’m not even going to try to propose anything for this conversation, but it does need to be reworked pretty badly.
20- D_S is correct, though the meaning of the sentence is pretty clear even having not watched the show. I’d call this a fairly minor mistake (especially considering how atrociously Mazui handled this one).
21- D_S is correct.

Overall, looking back on it, most of D_S’ criticism is valid, if overly harsh. From these screenshots alone, I’d probably call this a C+ script.

Wow, I haven’t seen a shitstorm like this since…
Actually, everything about this situation seems pretty similar to that one. Hmm…

Xythar says:

That had actual grammar problems and the F grade was still over the top. I don’t think you’ll find anything “several ten seconds” level in here.

Progeusz says:

UTW’s Accel World had mistakes obvious even to non-native speakers. F was too much but D seemed fine. I can’t see why Commie didn’t get B/C for Tamako Market.

Dark_Sage says:

Because it’s not even close to B-tier. I know you like Xythar, but he’s not actually a good editor. He’s very good at pandering though, so I can see where you got confused.

Progeusz says:

“I know you like Xythar” <- I suggest taking a day or two of break because it's probably the first time I sided with Xythar.

Novles says:

I only read the first ‘error’ (have other things to do) and I don’t think there is anything wrong with the line. This is if I’m assuming the context correctly, as I haven’t watched the show either. Anyway, at least here in Florida it’s normal to see older people (50+) refer to younger girls (10-13) as ‘princess’ regardless of how often it is used.

Nyangoro says:

I wouldn’t call it an error either. More likely, the term “princess” is given to the young girl who plays said role in the festival during which this episode takes place. I doubt it’s meant as a nickname.

kokujin-kun says:

>These are some of the worst
>karaoke translations I’ve ever
>seen, and I’ve seen some really
>goddamn bad ones.

I’m pretty sure I wrote worse ones

Dark_Sage says:

But you probably had someone competent edit them, yeah? Commie didn’t. Xythar was actually defending those lines in #Whine-Subs before he ragequit like a little bitch.

Xythar says:

[Xythar] [Dark_Sage]
[Xythar] another as in “a different music”
[Xythar] i asked about it myself
[Dark_Sage] The karaoke is gibberish Xythar.
[Xythar] well, beyond that, take it up with fnord
[Xythar] i don’t edit his songs

[Xythar] alright man, i understand if you’re upset about the a+, but we’re through until you get some sense in your head.
* You have left channel #whine-subs (Leaving)

So much defense! Such rage!

Like how you deopped lawzly for daring to question your editing choices, right?

Dark_Sage says:

Considering you’d been lurking on my channel for a year uninterrupted and then left… only to post three comments on this site saying you were never ever gonna read another one of my reviews again, I think it’s fair to call that a rage quit.

That’s why I don’t feel like I can take your reviews seriously anymore, especially when your own work is so subpar by comparison.
If you can read this review and honestly tell me that the conclusion is appropriate for the script (especially as it compares to others), then by all means continue to read this site.
He can have his opinion, but if our tastes don’t align, there’s no point in me reading his reviews anymore.

By the way, was that just talk, or are you a man of your word?

Xythar says:

No, I meant it. You can write what you like in your future reviews, but I won’t be reading them.

Neko-Chan says:


Dark_Sage says:

Two years gone, just like that. Oh well. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

Xythar says:

I was surprised too.

Well, it’s something that a lot of people have been asking me to do for a long time now, but I always used to disagree with them.

kokujin-kun says:

Yeah, sometimes when I get the lyrics back from editing I don’t even recognize them as being my writing anymore. I blame the fact that I just can’t stand most of these unoriginal, paint-by-numbers anisongs. Give me an uninspired song and you’re probably going to get lazy, uninspired lyrics.

fnord says:

The translation is gibberish, yes.

That’s what makes it accurate.

Drier/dryer is a typo and I agree that some of the lines can be straightened up. That goes for the contacts and the dissolve and some other things that boil down to quite dubious diction. My heartfelt apologies.

The line you found so hilarious is equally hilarious in Japanese. I’ll copy paste it in case a different translator wishes to comment on it.

>The record turns and turns
>When it swells and breaks
>the marks on it will play another music

If anybody can explain to me the poetry of this, I’m all ears.

I’m all in favor of translating into fine English, which admittedly was not always achieved in this particular song translation, but what is nonsense has to stay nonsense.

Novles says:

I think tune would sound better than music.

“The Marks on it will play another tune.”

Nyangoro says:

The lines are saying that as the vinyl record wears down, new grooves will be created, leading to a different sound (because old record players read the record by reading the grooves in it).

So you could do something like this:

“The record turns and turns
As it swells and warps
The scuffs trace a new track”

Or something a little more thought out than the two minutes it took me to come up with those lines.

Novles says:

I actually like your second line. But the third line could still use some work (not like mine is the best).

sapphi says:

Wow that was good.

TL for me please!!!!

(See site link)

Nyangoro says:

I’m not actually a TL, I’m an editor, lol

corocoro says:

The record player turns and turns.
Its needle raises and falls like the ocean waves,
following the grooves to play a new tune.

I’m assuming they’re talking about an LP here. I’m not a TL, but the gist of it should be there. Then again, it’s 1:30 am, so I might be completely off.

corocoro says:

Yepp, my interpretation was completely off-track. Time to get some shut-eye in and then see if I remember this in the morning.

Neko-Chan says:

Just as a question, are you fluent in Japanese?

Neko-Chan says:

That was in reply to fnord, by the way.

fnord says:

Dunno, more or less. I don’t get a chance to speak it very often, but I can read lyrics and poetry as fluently as English.

fnord says:

I know what is meant with these lines myself.

The record wears down, and the damage it incurred produces a different sort of melody which is also pleasant to the ear. The metaphor being that as you change in life nothing truly gets worse.

I’m not asking what the person meant. I’m asking why it’s written in such a retarded way.

Don’t you guys think that after some 400 song translations I could have turned this into something poetic if I had actually wanted?

FalseDawn says:

Not all who write English (or translate into English, as the case may be) can write poetry.

It’s actually quite a fine art to write decent poetic lines, even in script format. A lot of Hollywood fails at it, for example.

fnord says:

Yes, yes, I know. I invite you follow the link in my nickname so that you may judge my work yourself.

As you are no doubt a busy man, I will link some examples:

FalseDawn says:

I have one question for you and I’d like you to answer truthfully: Do you read poetry? In English, I mean – not Japanese.

Oh, I lied, I have a second question: Do you like certain songs purely because of their lyrics?

I think I already know the answer from looking at those examples, but I don’t want to make assumptions. I’d also like to repeat my previous statement, which is “Not all who write in English can write *poetry*”.

Seriously, making word choices in editing is a doddle compared to poetry.

fnord says:

Certain poetry, yes. Chiefly mixtures of prose and poetry, such as some of Lovecraft’s short stories or Poe. I generally have a more old-fashioned taste. I liked Paradise Lost, for example, but The Wasteland was too obtuse for me. I’m also not one for Postmodernism.

And yes, there are many songs I like purely because of their lyrics.

Let me ask you something in return, then. Do you not feel those translations have a certain poetry?

FalseDawn says:

Yes and no. The images are poetic, yes – but the word choices kinda muddy the waters.

Let me deconstruct a couple of lines for you to show you what I mean (this is a little unfair of me as I have a post-grad degree in poetry):

“The autumn leaves from the mountain, shining amid this evening,”

How do autumn leaves shine? Shine suggests they produce their own internal source of light, whereas that’s impossible. A better word would be “glittering” – and they can’t glitter in the evening because nothing really glistens or glitters unless under a source of light itself, like the sun, so I’d suggest “twilight” to give a better sense of time. “Amid” is also a bit old-fashioned but you can probably just about get away with it (though “in” says just as much and keeps it simple).

“are sometimes light and sometimes dark”

The verb “to be” is a very poor one to use in poetry, as a lot of the imagery in a poem relies on a sense of movement or sound or visual quality. Basically, it’s the old adage of ‘show, don’t tell’. The win verb in this situation would be “alternate” so your line would end up as “alternate between light and dark” – though I’m not convinced there isn’t a better way to say this, such as “radiance and shade”. A thesaurus is always handy to keep open when undertaking tasks like this.

I can continue in this vein if you like, but I hope you get the gist from that little insight. As I say, poetry is in the detail. While you may find T.S Eliot obtuse, a lot of what poetry is about is *how* you say something rather than *what* you’re saying. For instance, “the river/is a strong brown god” doesn’t suggest we should all start praying to it, but gives a sense of the river’s unstoppable attributes and its almost strangling grip over the rest of nature that lies in its path. That’s how I read it, at least.

fnord says:

‘Shine’ was used purposefully and literally in the Japanese. I know that this is a weak argument as far as translation is concerned and one often attack by myself as well, but I believed that the powerful choice of words where the leaves were a subjectively more powerful light source than the evening sun was important.

I agree with your criticism on the ‘to be’, but I’d strongly prefer a non-latinate word. Explaining why would require me to go into the Japanese, and I’d prefer to avoid that.

fnord says:

As for what you said last; I didn’t feel T.S. Eliot was incomprehensible. I felt that parts of the poem held no information apart from their own form, and that the poetic shape itself was the only information that could be taken from it. I don’t like that.

FalseDawn says:

Well, if it’s attempting to be more radiant than the evening sun, words like effervescent or… er, it’s late here so words escape me – but “shine” can be said many different ways in English that resonate a lot clearer while saying the same thing than a word plucked out of its usual context.

As for liking and disliking poetry – that’s natural. The only thing that really links poetry is that it’s all perceived as poetry (though there’s plenty of speculation over certain postmodern practices should count as poetry). The range of poems and poetic styles is probably vaster than the amount of story plots there are in the world. It’s a very broad subject and I approach it with the mindset that, as long as I can see its merits as a poem, it doesn’t matter whether I like it or not. Some poems really resonate strongly; others fall by the wayside mid-reading. That is the way of all things.

rarely_upset says:

I’m only here to make this comments chain longer since it’ll achieve about as much towards convincing any of you anything, but with less effort. Efficiency is everything, they say.

Anyway, since the current topic seems to be poetry and shining, I found a shiny poem, titled “shiny shine”.

love to read
love to write poems
on track team
like math class
love hiking

I hope I’ve enriched all of your days and maybe you’ll spend your time doing something productive instead of trying to get each other to budge from your stances.

I guess this is also a plea for Dark_Sage to fix his comments successfully for once, or stop making posts that are so reply-heavy. 224px isn’t enough girth to satisfy me.

Dark_Sage says:

I’m trying to figure it out, but from what I’ve heard, I’d need to completely revamp the site and get rid of the sidebar.

rarely_upset says:

Well, going all the way happens to every site that gets a lot of comments. What you’d need to do is implement something that’ll collapse deep reply threads and let you expand them in a new page.

Have fun with the php.

fnord says:

I should probably be a little more specific.

I’ve read my fair share of poetry in English, but I don’t read it very regularly, unlike prose. At the end of the day, my diction is most likely more influenced by prose than by poetry.

commiesux.jpg says:

Round and round the record goes, till the song warps and pops. But that’s just something new for the grooves to play!

fnord says:

Like I said, I’m not looking for yet another variant. You are all operating under the assumption that I can’t phrase it in English and am woefully lamenting the injustice done to the Japanese.

This is not the case.

The Japanese sounds terrible to me and I’m waiting for someone to explain to me why the English shouldn’t be equally terrible.

Dark_Sage says:

I guess it comes down to what the value is in retaining the poor writing. When it comes to scripts, I doubt you’d have much issue with translating the stupid, nonsense, generiphrases into better English, so I’m curious about your hesitation for this song.

Now that I know where you’re coming from, the original line makes more sense, but how is your typical viewer supposed to know you’re intentionally making it gibberish? It introduces confusion that I don’t particularly believe serves a purpose.

fnord says:

It depends on what’s the norm.

Generiphrases are just that; generic. If we didn’t take some liberties with them and made them more interesting, we would never see interesting lines.

However, while anisons are no paragons of poetry, they are also a lot more solid than this.

You’re basically compensating for objective failings, and no longer subjective ones.

zanon says:

Right, but then where is the line (or is there a line at all) where it would cease being translation and start being script writing? Is script writing rather then translation even a problem? Are anime producers simply not allowed in your mind to have actual retards in their shows? I mean, however rare it seems like in a big enough number of works there will be times where the producers actually want to have a character speak gibberish, or talk in an entirely stupid manner, and that is a by-design part of the script. And of course there may be other cases where a line is just plain mediocre for no reason beyond the studio not being great, but if that’s the voice should translators or editors be rewriting it according to their own thoughts on how it “should” have been written?

I recognize that a “typical viewer” is something to think about, but it seems like sometimes there isn’t a great answer.

Actar says:

Yup, my questions exactly.

It would appear that, generally, people are getting increasingly worked up over how much more flowery the English script *has* to be when compared to the Japanese one (which is not necessarily a bad thing*).

However, as a result of all this, translations have become more superfluous and over-embellished – so much so that they cease becoming translations and turn into brand new scripts that hardly reflect the original dialogue or characterization. (If you ask me, many times, the character’s personality gets across to the viewer well enough through their body language and tone.)

There are time when translators think that they can, or have a right to, *fix* the Japanese script. To me the goal of a translator should be to allow someone to enjoy a media product for what it is (the good and the bad), and to not add one’s own spin to it. Otherwise the audience is enjoying something the translator wrote and not the product itself.

If you ask me, to a certain degree, a translation =/= a re-write. A re-write would be putting one’s own spin on things and modifying the original script. Even though the liberties might improve the show making it funnier, wittier or cruder, you are not letting the audience enjoy the show for what it is.

Of course, while my translating preferences do lean towards the more literal side, Dark Sage is right with regard to generic translations. There is indeed truth to the fact that some of the more generic Japanese terms like はい (yes, sure, me too, etc…), よろしくお願いします (I’ll be in your care, thank you, I’ll leave it to you, etc…) and 仕様/仕方がない (it can’t be helped, if you insist, fine, if you say so, etc…) translate to different things in different situations. But sometimes this is taken too far and words that do not need to get changed, get changed.

There’s a whole can of worms about cultural issues and localizations that I just don’t want to get into.

Do feel free to disagree. I would love to hear the opinions of others.

Actar says:

Don’t you just love the Arts? Everything is so damn subjective. As they say, you can’t please everyone.

FalseDawn says:

Well, yes, but I don’t advocate rewriting either – not really. Just sprucing.

And for good reasons too; from what I’ve seen of American/English TV, the whole culture of language is completely different. These generic phrases repeated in anime might be fine for Japanese audiences, but there would be no ratings for it for an English-speaking audience if you kept with the direct translations every time (generitranslations).

Your point about characterisation is interesting though – I get where you’re coming from with it, but don’t you think it’s so much better when the spoken words match the tone/body language. In natural English, a whispered phrase wouldn’t match the same phrase shouted, so why should we denounce natural English for the sake of a direct translation? That’s not a rewrite – that’s deft localisation, that enhances the experience for a Western audience while keeping the intent of the Japanese intact.

fnord says:

-monogatari is smart in ways seldom anticipated.

I’ve long thought about something related to this.

Let us assume a script was translated so freely that it objectively and clearly deviates from the original intended meaning.

Does this truly make it worse?

A heretical idea, to be sure.

Of course, if you set out to provide an accurate translation, then it is worse. But if you set out to let the viewer enjoy something, it is judged by entirely different standards.

Is a fake inherently of inferior quality as compared to the original?

I don’t think so.

erejnion says:

Definitely not.

Still, it’s a fake.

If you are trying to produce a translation, such practices are inexcusable. But I really really enjoyed episodes 9 and 11 of gg’s Hidan no Aria. Much more than the actual show. I would occasionally recommend somebody to watch specifically these two episodes, without even bothering with the rest of the show. Does this answer your question? Only as far as my opinion is concerned, ofc.

jabashque says:

“You can take off glasses, but you take out contacts.”
I’ve never actually heard anyone around me say “take out contacts.” Usually, I hear “take off contacts.” (And this also included the optometrist’s office where I got my Paragon CRT contacts)

jabashque says:

Never mind; I think I’ve been mishearing “take out” as “take off” the entire time of my life.

Neko-Chan says:

If Google is something to go by:

Took off had around 147,000,000 results
Take out had around 204,000,000 results

Therefore, ‘Take out contacts’ is more common.

Aru says:

Google for “take off contacts” and then “take out contacts”. But keep the apostrophes, so you’ll only get exact hits.

rarely_upset says:

Ah, but if you Google “Take out contacts” and “Take off contacts”, you get 90,100 and 292,000, respectively.

Where is your god now?

Dark_Sage says:

“take out your contacts” vs. “take off your contacts”
477,000 vs. 105,000

jabashque says:

Well, I guess that’s cleared up… not really.

So, if I were to fansub and put “I tried taking off my contacts, but it got stuck to my eye due to suction,” would you consider that acceptable?

Dark_Sage says:

No, because “contacts” is plural and you went with “it”, which is singular. If you wanted to indicate one got stuck in your eye, you’d go with “I tried taking off my contacts, but one got stuck in my eye due to suckpower.”

So yeah, either “out” or “off” are fine it seems.

jabashque says:

Boy am I gonna suck as an editor.

jabashque says:

“take out his contacts” vs “take off his contacts”
1,030,000 vs 937,000

“take out her contacts” vs “take off her contacts”
435,000 vs 2,700,000

I have no idea which I should use; “take out” or “take off?”

Dark_Sage says:

take out. It’s the only logical option. Though I guess “take off” is pretty popular too.

jabashque says:

I guess it’s the same thing as “blood curdle” and “blood curl;” the phrase “take off your contacts” probably came from people mishearing “out” as “off.”

erejnion says:

It’s gender specific.

rarely_upset says:

Just claiming #200.

Carry on.

Justinnnnnn says:

Some of these 200 comments have gone OhSoOffTopic, so why the hell not:

Does anyone know that film Ookami Kodomo no Ame to Yuki, and is it any good? Has someone subbed it? Checked on Nyaa, but I only found a trailer.

Dark_Sage says:

It’s aimed at little kids, so it sucks. Avoid.

P32L says:

Silly Sage, everyone knows all anime is for little kids.

Nyangoro says:

go suck shinji’s dick asukafag >:

Dark_Sage says:


Novles says:

Only if I can watch!

Justinnnnnn says:



=0x0= says:

Someone is butthurt about someone butthurting about something.

Kaimweir says:

Lol spent more time reading the comments than the review

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