Fakesub Review: [Commie] Galilei Donna/Samurai Flamenco/Yowamushi Pedal (Episode 01)

Disqualified, Fansub Review — By on October 12, 2013 12:16 pm

This post was written by Dark_Sage. He is Dark_Sage.

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How many more disqualifications will we get this season? I’m so excited to see what those people who consider themselves my peers can manage.

Galilei Donna

Galilei Donna comparison 1

Galilei Donna comparison 1

Galilei Donna comparison 2

Galilei Donna comparison 2

 

 

Samurai Flamenco

Samurai Flamenco comparison 1

Samurai Flamenco comparison 1

Samurai Flamenco comparison 2

Samurai Flamenco comparison 2

 

 

Yowamushi Pedal

Yowamushi Pedal comparison 1

Yowamushi Pedal comparison 1

Yowamushi Pedal comparison 2

Yowamushi Pedal comparison 2

 

Yep, all scripts were “edited” by Commie’s head editor: herkz.

 

 

Wasted time, give me content, D_S

Galilei Donna - Gun-kun

Aight, put the gun down.

In case you were wondering, yes, fansubbers are incredibly proud of “their” scripts they release like the ones in this post. Here’s a great explanation from one of them (you may know the author as the guy who was responsible for this fantastic release):

http://collectr.blogspot.com/2013/10/editorial-minimalism.html

Jpeg’d: http://www.crymore.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/collectr_sucks_at_editing.jpg

 

For those of you starting to think he might have a point, dash those thoughts on the rocks he should dive headfirst into. “Minimalist editing” is not a new concept to fansubbing. In fact, it was the dominant method of editing prior to when I started actively subbing in the scene. And it died out for a reason.

"Meddling with a good script is disrespectful to the translator".

“Meddling with a good script is disrespectful to the translator”. -FFF’s head editor. Yes, really.

The “minimalist” logic goes, “since editors don’t know Japanese, they should not touch translated scripts beyond fixing grammatical and spelling errors and formatting a few things”. And that works just fine if you assume the translator is a savant who did 30 passes on the script and made the most godly release ever that cannot be improved by anyone else.

Know any translators like that? No? Then I guess editors are needed. Otherwise you get lines like,

A line from Crunchyroll's Golden Time, unedited in FFF's "own" release

A line from Crunchyroll’s Golden Time, unedited in FFF’s “own” release

that are justified by “Well, it sorta makes some sense and the translator clearly thought it was good, so me changing the line would be ruining the glorious Japanese and destroying the experience for anyone watching the show.”

It’s hero worship predicated on… nothing, and perpetuated by the slothful and useless who have to come up with some excuse for not doing anything. And it results in poor quality releases, or in the cases where a group just copies Crunchyroll scripts… absolutely nothing to differentiate them meaningfully from the original version.

 

 

An open note to collectr, herkz, brainchild, and other low-tiers:

If you’re disinclined to fix a script, it’s not that the script is good, it’s that you’re incompetent and lazy. And, really, if you only spend ten minutes on a script, why the fuck would you expect a viewer to spend 25 minutes watching your version, let alone me spending a few hours reviewing it?

Stop being such entitled little shits and do something valuable with the minds your special ed classes molded or do the more convenient thing and kill yourselves. My vote’s for the latter.

 

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132 Comments

AnimeNOW says:

b-but horriblesubs has horrible in the name so it must be horrible right?

Dark_Sage says:

And certainly worse than great groups like Commie and FFF!

Chaos-kun says:

(¬‿ ¬)

stgmefly says:

It’s a shame Herkz doesn’t come around anymore

Anon says:

http://puu.sh/4OkfI.jpg
Now we wait for the Commie Defence Force.

random says:

R.I.P fansubbing. Commie/FFF/Vivid/WhyNot/ are probably just copy/pasting everything, gg is back to inserting jokes/references in their script for Tokyo Ravens, UTW’s editing for Kyoukai no Kanata is just embarrassing, etc. and for a few shows CR is the only option because even the “edit” groups are too lazy to do anything.

UIDF says:

>UTW’s editing for Kyoukai no Kanata is just embarrassing

Yeah, they should just leave it untranslated, right? Stupid fucking fansubbers, changing Japanese words into ones that we can understand perfect.

random says:

TIL made up words are completely understandable.

UIDF says:

Are you braindead?
If not, then yes, they should be understandable.

How about instead of bitching and whining like a faggot about every little thing that you don’t like, you actually, I don’t know, present an alternative?

Fuwaa says:

How about instead of bitching and whining like a faggot about every little thing that you don’t like, you actually, I don’t know, present an alternative?

I’m not quoting your post. I’m responding to it.

If you don’t agree with someone, you can explain what you feel is wrong with their words rather than calling them braindead. Or you can do both, but not explaining makes you look like an idiot. :)

By the way, “dreamshade” is objectively inaccurate as a translation of 妖夢, and “spirit hunter” doesn’t fit well with the concept of people who hunt “dreamshades”. Then saying you’re not a shadeling but a half-shade, who would be able to tell the difference?

“Shade” alone would actually be a fairly decent translation… Then Shade Hunter or Shadow Hunter/Warrior for the humans who fight them. What’s the point, then, of making up a word like “dreamshade”?

Xythar says:

Why is it objectively inaccurate?

VEGETA says:

Well, some groups tends to make some liberation.

However, as you pointed, they should consider keeping them in a range where people can understand them smoothly.

maybe they chose “dreamshade” for a reason. I don’t watch the show, but maybe it has to do with that these shades are not real or came from dreams… no? if it’s like this, then they made a good choice.

UIDF says:

That’s not how it works. YOU’RE the one that’s bitching about things not being the way you want them to be.

As for the dreamshade thing; 夢 means dream. Go ahead and explain why ‘dreamshade’ is “objectively wrong”.

Fuwaa says:

… Even in English there are words with multiple meanings. “Mean”, for instance, can refer to a definition, the average of a group of numbers, or an unpleasant attitude.

For 夢, you do have a meaning of ゆめ, “dream”. That’s even the most likely interpretation… if the character is by itself. But you also have a reading of くらい, which is “dark, gloomy, dim”. However, the reading given for 妖夢 is ようむ, youmu… む or mu means “nothing”.

For 妖, the same “you” as in “youkai” (妖怪), the meaning used is likely “supernatural”. 怪 represents rumors – wouldn’t it be strange if “youkai” were translated to “rumorshades” all over the place?

So, what about the 夢 character? http://anime-kyokai.com/glossary/ says they have various appearances and come from an unknown place, some of them feed on people, and generally they can’t be seen by people.

From the context of the first episode and the glossary definition, “dark supernatural” fits, making “shade”, or “supernatural nothing (non-existence)” can even fit, making “phantasm”. Both words are uncommon enough to acknowledge that “youmu” is an uncommon term for “monster” but well-known enough that they can at least be searched, for people who don’t know.

There’s nothing remotely suggesting a need to “improve” on the word “shade”. “Dreamshade” implies that the shades come from dreams, or consume dreams perhaps, but neither appears to be the case here.

Does that answer your question?

Akatsukin says:

You… are you serious? 夢 (read “yume” or “mu”) means dream. Just because 无,無, and whatever else kanji are pronounced “mu” and mean nothing doesn’t mean 夢 does as well. You can’t just go changing kanji in the word because it has the same pronunciation and use is as a claim to back up your nonsense.

Fuwaa says:

You… do you not know that words can mean different things in different contexts? And in this case it’s even -part of a word and not the entire word-. I assumed from your grammar that you graduated from elementary school.

By the way, when I say I read your post with disgust, I don’t suggest that I have any wind blowing on me right now.

csb says:

Dude, why don’t you head over to UTW’s site and bitch about their translation choices there? This is just pathetic.

Fuwaa says:

Because I don’t particularly care about UTW’s translation because I don’t read their version? I was just replying to a question, seeing as I still have half an hour to kill before going out.

fnord says:

That is absolute rotten bullshit. You have absolutely no idea how Japanese works.

Literally nothing of what you say is remotely correct.

Xythar says:

>怪 represents rumors

Huh? Where do you get that from?

Humanity says:

怪 has it that that was the case.

Fuwaa says:

*sigh* I didn’t get it from anywhere. I made a mistake. the 妖 is what represents rumors. 怪 would be eery or suspicious, making youkai suspicious rumors. Which would still be odd as a translation for 妖怪 in most cases.

Xythar says:

妖 doesn’t represent rumors either.

You need to actually learn Japanese before you start criticising other people’s translations. This is just silly.

Xythar says:

Also I just reread your post and… no, you can’t do that. The meaning comes first, based on the kanji, and the only effect the reading has is on how you pronounce it. That’s why it’s called a reading.

You can’t take the reading and use it to do a reverse lookup for completely different kanji with the same pronunciation. That’s like saying the word “flamboyant” in English can be interpreted as referring to a young male ant that plays flams on the drums.

Fuwaa says:

But kanji have multiple meanings. The reading is intended to reflect the meaning of the kanji, and is understood through context. By breaking apart the individual characters, you understand the parts, and then you put them back together to understand the whole.

Start with telling me what part of that statement is incorrect.

Fuwaa says:

Nevermind. I’m heading out so I’ll just check UTW website later to see the reasons for calling it dreamshade, and if the reasoning is explained and logical then I will apologize wherever you like, even if I still disagree. :)

Xythar says:

>The reading is intended to reflect the meaning of the kanji

This part, for one. Yes, sometimes specific readings are linked to specific meanings, but the point of the reading is not to establish the meaning. There are at least two ways to read most kanji, even those that have only one meaning, and saying that the on’yomi and kun’yomi readings are somehow linked to wildly different meanings (like you did with ‘yume’ and ‘mu’) is just stupid. They’re just two different ways to read the same kanji, and each one turns up in different compounds depending on usage.

random says:

Also, haha ghostbusters reference. So funny.

Xythar says:

TYL that line was written by the TL, approved by both TLCs (one of which specifically complimented it), and went entirely untouched by the editor.

Kiraly says:

It was fine. Why do fansubs have to be “no fun allowed”?

Xythar says:

I know. I was contradicting his implication earlier that all this stuff somehow creeps in during editing.

Anon says:

Yeah, they should add le epic memes to make them epic subs, right?

Commie FTW :^)

Kiraly says:

If the ‘epic meme’ happens to be something that fits the scene or the character would say, why not?

The reverse is ‘I know rite, fansubs are srs business’.

Argon says:

Imo

[…] I like having lyrics to the songs […] more signs typeset […] timing to be clean […] a good encode from a better source than a webcast […]

are valid points, at least the better encode. Timing a CR script to a downloaded raw myself is more effort than just loading one of these releases.

Argon says:

Seems like blockquote tags don’t work? The line full of […] is quoted from the linked blog.

Aru says:

HTML tags don’t work. You need to use BB-code.

Nyangoro says:

People like them are the reason why Pupa hasn’t aired yet.

Xythar says:

I entirely agree with everything Collectr says.

And in cases like these, I’m obviously going to watch the fansub release over HS because if both scripts are identical, why wouldn’t you watch the one with songs and proper typesetting? Saying otherwise is just silly.

AnimeNOW says:

Would you wait for a “proper” (lol) release or just get it over horriblesubs if it was already out when you wanted to download said show

Xythar says:

I don’t have ADHD and am capable of waiting more than 6 hours for my anime when there are already like 9-10 other shows I’m watching this season, so sure.

AnimeNOW says:

But… it’s pointless. I mean the only thing more you’re getting is a song TL, moving typesetting, some “editing” and a better encode… None of them would really “enhance” a 25minute experience (imo.)
But hey, I’ve seen people that would download a release just because the opening song has kawaii effects. To each their own.

Xythar says:

Why do you do BDs? All you’re getting is a slightly clearer encode.

For some shows, like Aku no Hana, the difference is almost nothing.

Long story short is that different people place value in different things. You’re free to download whichever release suits your preferences.

AnimeNOW says:

Because I have free time and don’t care about the whole TV vs BD.

Long story short it all depends on the [grouptag]

(sadly)

trichinas says:

Let’s not forget timing that isn’t an eyesore

Dark_Sage says:

Of course you would. We’ve long since established the caliber of your character. Should I also expect Vivid to follow the Commie standard here?

In cases like these, I’m not going to waste my time on waiting for a slightly prettier typeset. And with Crunchyroll I have the added convenience of being able to stream it if I want. There is no discernible benefit to waiting for releases that do not offer any significant advantages to the viewer.

Xythar says:

I’ll remember that the next time you make a point about song translations being a whole 15% of the script.

Dark_Sage says:

Okay, you caught me. I do care about karaoke. Unfortunately, I don’t care about it enough to wait 10 hours for it. You understand the difference, right? It’s like how I’ll wait a week for an A-tier script if the next closest thing is a C-tier, but how I’ll only wait a day if the difference is between a B+ and an A-. It’s a matter of tradeoffs and karaoke is not significant enough for me to delay experiencing a show when I can just pull up a prior release with karaoke in it and watch that bit when the kara comes up.

tl;dr: The main script matters most to me.

And wanna answer my question? Will your philosophy on editing affect Vivid’s releases?

Xythar says:

My philosophy on editing is my own, and it’s the one I’ve always followed. I’m not going to stand over the other editors and demand they edit more or less of the script to fit my preferences.

If you can be more clear about what your concerns are regarding Vivid then I can give you a more specific answer.

Dark_Sage says:

I’m a little worried that since you see herkz’s editing as a quality example of fansubbing that it will negatively affect the quality of Vivid’s releases as you attempt to chase the ideal your mentors at Commie have demonstrated with these subs.

But perhaps you expect your group’s editors to ignore your ideals. In which case, my fears will be assuaged, so long as you’re not “editing” your releases.

Xythar says:

I don’t recall saying anything about herkz’s editing at all.

I believe I’ve made my stance abundantly clear above. Anything further you attempt to infer is the product of your own “vivid” imagination.

Dark_Sage says:

Ducking the question with a non-answer, huh? Sasuga Xythar.

Xythar says:

What question? Your post was 0% question and 100% insultingly-phrased insinuation.

If you want to know something, ask it straight instead of putting words in my mouth.

Dark_Sage says:

Please, Xythar. I would never insult you!

I’m merely trying to get to the bottom of this pressing issue, since I care deeply about your success as a fansubber.

Did you want a straighter question? Okay, buddy. How about:

“Are you capable of subbing without a dick in your mouth?”

Wait, wait, you said no mouth-related questions. Okay, let’s go with:

“Will Vivid’s releases follow the standards set by Commie as evidenced this season by their Ace of Diamond, Galilei Donna, Samurai Flamenco, and Yowamushi Pedal releases… or will your group attempt a different means of handling Crunchyroll scripts?”

There we go. I’m sure you can take that one.

Xythar says:

We’ve been handling Crunchyroll scripts since Muromi-san. I’m sure you can look to prior releases for your answer.

But yes, clearly I erred in assuming you actually wanted to know the answer in good faith as opposed to asking questions simply to rile me up and create drama. Thanks for reminding me why it’s a waste of time to ever talk to you.

Anon says:

Your fault for coming back.
http://puu.sh/4Oxi3.png

Dark_Sage says:

Whoa, is that an edited screenshot? It must be. Xythar is neither a liar nor a hypocrite! If he said he’d leave, clearly he would.

Anon says:

Of course. There is no way that Xythar, the pinnacle of righteousness, would ever go back on his word.

Kiraly says:

Xythar/DarkSage fanfiction when

Anon says:

If you were more bitter, you’d be subbing lemons.

fnord says:

The matter of this particular ‘review’ aside, I don’t understand why you’re so upset you’re writing one to begin with. Wait. I do. You’re angling for drama.

If people want to forward scripts without so much as casting another glance at them… good for them?

This topic fails to elicit any kind of opinion or emotion from me.

Dark_Sage says:

I don’t throw up disqualification posts for groups who are honest about it. Sekinin, for example, won’t find themselves the subject of these posts since they’re very clear about exactly what they did with the CR scripts — which is essentially nothing.

It’s when groups play innocent and do the whole “Look, I made this whole release myself!” bullshit that I’m gonna step in and point it out. Intentionally misleading leechers is not something I’m gonna rubberstamp just because you want me to.

And I’m not surprised you didn’t find much in this post that relates to you… because I didn’t write it about you. I do find it amusing, though, that you so desperately want to point out how uninterested you are… by formulating a reply to the topic indicating your apathy. Let me guess… your keyboard magically typed and posted that reply?

fnord says:

It was that tiny altruistic part of me that desires to help others which replied to you. Though, admittedly, a keyboard also played a role.

Dark_Sage says:

I guess you helped entertain me, so… goal achieved?

fnord says:

I’m such a good samaritan.

Anon says:

SSY BDs fucking when?

asdfghjk says:

wait since when was Collectr FFF’s head editor?

Dark_Sage says:

Since he proved himself better than every other editor in FFF. Does FFF have someone more capable of removing ellipses from Crunchyroll scripts than collectr? I may have to revise my documentation of FFF’s group structure if that’s the case.

Akatsukin says:

Every aspect of a release is important to me. If Crunchy happens to put out a good translation and editing, then fine, but that’s not all that’s important. I want proper typesetting that doesn’t distract from the action, and a fitting dialog font (because yes, HS’s gets tiring after a while, and even Commie’s stock of about 8 font styles is much better). I’d like the songs to be translated, because I know that a competent translator can make an opening or ending much more meaningful, not to mention the hard work that kfx makers put in for each show. Even just focusing on the script, I hate Crunchy’s style of splitting up long sentences into three shorter lines with no regard for the timing of what’s being said at all. I’d love everything to have an original translation so we can go back to how it was even just a few short years ago, but I’m not going to complain about groups that focus on everything else unless they add errors to the script. Depending on the show, I’ll wait the extra few hours for Commie, FFF, WhyNot, or whoever else so that I can enjoy my anime to the fullest.

Dark_Sage says:

Bit hypocritical to say you want original translations when you’re arguing that the furthest thing from it is the modern ideal.

Akatsukin says:

Well, that part was really just a bit of nostalgia for before simulcasts as well as me being a bit defensive (I mean honestly, CR is doing pretty much every series this season). Bottom line of what I want to say in response is that I know this is an editing blog, but a legitimate fansubbing group can exist without a translator, so long as they make it known that that’s what they’re doing. It’s funny; I used to think that the translator was the most important part of subbing, but once I got into it I found that it was so much more than that.

Separately, I just wish leechers understood what goes into providing them with quality subs. Yes, I want to force my absurdly high standards of watching Japanese cartoons for children onto everyone else, because if I don’t tell them they’re just eating shit, then they’ll never know better.

Akatsukin says:

Just realized a small mistake in what I said. Even edit groups absolutely need a TLC. Many of the CR translators make fuck ups which need fixing.

KoolKidsK says:

Same. I don’t like and still refuse to think of using a CR script as base as “fansubbing.” Fansubbing is pretty much just about who can edit a script the best and fastest rather than who has the best tl and shit. To each his own, I guess.

archdeco says:

>I’m so excited to see what those people who consider themselves my PEERS can manage.

Excuse me? You haven’t put out a release since Last Exile (OVAs/dropped/stalled projects don’t count). Whine-Subs truly are the best subs!

Dark_Sage says:

You sure are pushing hard to get me to release Hyobu, huh?

archdeco says:

That’s the last show on Earth I care about.

Dark_Sage says:

Oh, so you were actually just mad that I’m still the best editor in fansubbing despite not subbing any airing releases this season.

Sorry, I didn’t really catch the drift of your original post. I can’t say I’ve experienced jealousy all that often, so I couldn’t relate to you. Have a gomen.

archdeco says:

>best editor in fansubbing

That’s the best joke I heard in a long time and believe me, I’ve heard plenty of them. Your Medaka Box/Softenni releases sure show how great you are.

And no, that wasn’t jealousy. I’m not gonna be jealous of a guy who thinks like he’s the smartest guy in the entire world. Get off your high horse.

Have you ever edited an arashi script before? Not saying I disagree with what you’re trying to say about there being examples of not-so-great editing from D_S, because there are, but you’re giving the wrong examples. Try Tamako Market, where the group that doesn’t use editors had a better-flowing script.

Dark_Sage says:

My edits were clearly good enough for other groups to copy, so I’d say I did pretty well there.

Dark_Sage says:

Forgot to mention that archdeco’s an ESL timer. He has absolutely no idea of what what editing is, let alone how to spell it.

archdeco says:

Tamako would be good example, but D_S ditched the group… halfway through the show? I guess best editors never finish what they started. :)

Dark_Sage says:

I finished Tamako. What are you talking about?

FalseDawn says:

Damn straight. I’m awesome and it took me three years to completely sub a whole project :D

Ryuk says:

/me grabs popcorn.
*munch*

VEGETA says:

you are a devil ^_^, and that’s why I like u

VEGETA says:

Hmm I watched this video of D_S before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc7b8F4fIhw

it’s why he fansub stuff.

And I do agree with you that no one would be the best when it comes to editing, but for TL I can tell that 8thsin is #1, Raze/Quarkboy are great too.

Anon says:

How could you forgot #basedvale, the man who doesn’t speak English nor Japanese fluently.

On a serious note, I’d rate lyger higher than Raze.

VEGETA says:

Raze is one of the greatest TLs, look at his subs for UTW and you will now. If you find 1 episode that is not good, that doesn’t mean he is bad.

Vale did awful job in Hyouka and that was a bad mark for Commie themselves…

Dark_Sage says:

“He’s good, I swear” isn’t a good argument. Do you have anything to back your claims up, or do you just think he’s sugoi because others say he is?

Also, you missed Anon’s obvious (and accurate) dig at Vale.

Anon says:

Wait, are you implying that UTW isn’t literally a gift from the gods and can do no wrong?

Dark_Sage says:

I would never dare imply that the speed at which a group subs a show is anything other than directly proportional to the quality of a translation.

#basedraze #sogood

VEGETA says:

Well, do you say that he is a bad translator? if so then back up your opinion.

UTW subs are great in general and he is their translator, for me, this is a good enough proof he is good.

like when you see herkz, you say that editing is bad because of his past or so, right? If I came and say he is good then I must provide a proof.

___

what dig?

Dark_Sage says:

http://www.crymore.net/2013/09/10/fansub-review-utw-fate-kaleid-liner-prisma-illya-episode-07/

I wouldn’t say he’s “bad”, just that he isn’t nearly as good as his ESL fans think he is.

VEGETA says:

And, is that episode a proof for all his shows? it’s just one episode.

and you said that he worked alone and it’s reasonable that he will have editing problems.

there are groups that took D and A in your reviews…

I am not trying to miss-lead this post into off-topic subjects, if that is what you thought…

If you want to keep the off-topic entertainment before herkz and Commie defense force comes, list us the top TLs in your opinion. (how about 8thsin as a start)

Dark_Sage says:

I don’t have anything that’s a “proof for all shows”. I’m not going to review everything he’s ever done for you. I can give you that, which is him by himself. If you wanna factor in other releases, I’ve got like 12 UTW reviews out there. Find them. http://www.crymore.net/review_summary/

I’m not going to rank TLs, just as I’m not going to rank editors or anyone else. There are too many variables for that list to be accurate and I’m not gonna do anything unless it has value.

herkz won’t come, just FYI. He’s boycotting Crymore along with all other Commie staff except for Xythar and fnord. They’re mad that I won’t give every release of theirs an A. The irony is that Crymore is the only site on the internet where they can get an actual positive review from anyone other than themselves.

Qrius says:

And yet again you arrive at an age-old dillema: if you can’t have both, what’s more important for a TL – a perfect understanding of the source language or the target one?

Same goes for how much editing does a script require – there’s as many answers as the people you’ll ask…

Dark_Sage says:

All the knowledge in the world is useless to others unless you can transfer it.

When it comes to making the choice between someone with an A-tier knowledge of Japanese and a B-tier knowledge of English and someone with a B-tier knowledge of Japanese and an A-tier knowledge of English, gimme the latter guy.

VEGETA says:

Again, one episode is not a proof of all. Let’s not argue more about this cuz I am not implying he (or anyone else) can’t be wrong.

I didn’t mean a ranking, but who you think is a good TL.

For Commie thing, I remember a war happened between 8thsin and Vale,herkz once… It was because of Commie’s Hyouka release. They wrote a different scenario but yet their review site (not red reviews) gave them (or they gave themselves) a good mark. So, no wonder they stopped coming here.

Anon says:

Let me let you in on a little something; no one gives a fuck about herkz.

Haidaraaaaa says:

“He’s boycotting Crymore along with all other Commie staff except for Xythar and fnord.”

I feel so forgotten.

Dark_Sage says:

You’re honorarily not in Commie by virtue of not being an insufferable, moronic twat.

Dark_Sage says:

Listen Archie, I don’t think I’m the smartest guy in the entire world. I know I am.

It’s a lonely life up here in Tower de la Sage, but someone’s gotta live it. I’m not so cruel as to leave it vacated, ya know. No need for your jealousy; I’m just providing the world a quality service.

zanon says:

I think you talking about the Japanese/translation aspect of it is actually almost irrelevant, because fundamentally the exact same dynamic exists as with authors and editors in the same language, from the lowest to the highest level. Serious editors cut like mad, suggest rewording, etc. For absolutely top-tier incredible authors too, huge amounts of precious ORIGINAL VISION gets axed or reworded. And at the time authors often hate them for it particularly if they’re new, but when dealing with good editors usually recognize over time how critical that is. Even though they make good raw stuff that can be cut and polished into diamond, the cutting and polishing is still absolutely necessary. When someone does get too big for editors and doesn’t have the self recognition to recognize the importance we end up with one of the countless authors who have started great, built up a big following, and then later in their career ended up producing dreck that takes 8x as many words to say the same thing.

And it’s true at every level, an honest going over by someone else who is good at language is important for way more then mere typos or grammar. I’m reasonably confident in my own writing, but if I’m so much as writing an important letter for work I get a second opinion. Random net posts are one thing, but anything that’s an actual production? It’s important for everybody no matter how good they are. We’ve all got our blindspots and tunnel vision and stuff we rushed and meant to go back to do better but forgot about etc etc etc.

Of course an editor who is total shit might make it all worse, but if they don’t have the confidence to make major changes and go back and forth with the original author/TL then they should study more or not bother.

FalseDawn says:

All makes sense in the real world, but here in fansubbing, everyone knows it all hinges on translator ego. In effect, the editors only edit how they edit because of the translators they’ve worked with (or like D_S, they have some higher power whispering in their ear about a higher purpose :D)

SomeLoser says:

The Translator provides the turd. The Editor provides the turd-polish.

VEGETA says:

Well, D_S you really pointed an important thing here, though I don’t totally with you.

Commie do offer better quality than HS, even if it’s so small. And here comes preference of “is this small extra enhancements important to you?”.

For me, I download most shows I watch after some fansubs release it, unlike stuff like SNK which you can spot over nine thousands peers at the 1 sec any release shows up in nyaa… so yeah I will wait for Commie.

However, If Commie won’t do anything to the script because it’s already perfect, then don’t take the show as a project! we can handle 1 show per season If you liked it so much, but 4 shows with no any addition to CR is just not proper.

and Xythar you say fansubs do BDs? yeah they do for the extra encoding quality but these are BDs, you are doing TV releases. TV -> BD is acceptable without touching the script. But TV -> TV is not!

So, do a proper editing/TLC or just leave it to HS or even do a BD from it. It’s not necessary that your group do an over nine thousands shows per season, 2 good shows are more than enough.

AnimeNOW says:

>Commie do offer better quality than HS, even if it’s so small.

They do fix the CR fuck ups with stuff like “who you” to “who are you”, but somewhere else commie will do an edit that’ll just make that missing “are” even worse.

>However, If Commie won’t do anything to the script because it’s already perfect, then don’t take the show as a project!

Commie don’t care. They’ll do it if it’ll get their e-penis pointy

>yeah they do for the extra encoding quality but these are BDs

Too be honest blu-ray groups should look into getting the original scripts upgraded as much as they can, passing them to a TLCer or even just an editor/good QCer. I’ve notice that Commie do this so that’s a plus (even if the TV to BD script changes aren’t big)

>nine thousands shows per season,

Is this bait?

VEGETA says:

> “They do fix the CR fuck ups with stuff like “who you” to “who are you”, but somewhere else commie will do an edit that’ll just make that missing “are” even worse. ”

I am implying that they do these minor edits the right way. I meant the idea of editing scripts this way.

> “Commie don’t care. They’ll do it if it’ll get their e-penis pointy”

Which leads me to wonder why. Just do the shows you like, and if there is CR with their good subs, then no need for a remux into a better encoding.
I know they don’t care, but I am wondering why?

> “Too be honest blu-ray groups should look into getting the original scripts upgraded as much as they can, passing them to a TLCer or even just an editor/good QCer. I’ve notice that Commie do this so that’s a plus (even if the TV to BD script changes aren’t big)”

Yes, that’s right.

My idea was like if you just mux the script with no modification (or minor ones like Commie’s) into a BD encode rather than a TV one, it will already be a nice improvement over the TV release. That is because of the difference between the 2 sources of course.

But, TV to TV gains you nothing unless you really differ the script. ALL groups these days provide good encoding quality in TV releases.

> “Is this bait?”

you meant “does that bait?” &__&

It baits when you see 5 shows being remuxed into a new encode and being named a new release… Yes it does!

However, when you see 1 show being like that… it won’t matter THAT much.

___

Using CR’s scripts is not a bad thing to do, but one should add his own style to the script. like: liberal vs literal, honorfics or not, localizing many terms or keeping them not localized and other stuff…

Anon says:

Watch HS instead of Commie?

But then how will I get le epic memes in my subs?

Ryuk says:

Good idea, Sage. Doing all the DQ’s at once.

VEGETA says:

I was surprised that they did this thing to many shows at the same season.

Qrius says:

This “discussion” isn’t even half as interesting as the comment count would suggest…

Anon says:

Not enough Commie damage control and tears.

FalseDawn says:

Never thought I’d be doing this, but I’m standing up for collectr on this one (TL note: we’re pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum, editing-wise). Here goes:

It’s a different style of editing, D_S. Simple as that. It’s not better nor worse than the editing style that you champion. The reason it died out is because Crunchyroll have made it, more or less, old hat and obsolete, not because it suddenly fell from the limelight as a style.

Now, yes, I’m in the corner of editing right down to the finest details, changing lines for the sound of them rather than merely because they don’t make sense, grammatically or otherwise. Some translators enjoy this (or at least, don’t actively bash my head in) while others find it an annoyance (intimidating, perhaps? I don’t know). I have also fallen foul of the same translator collectr mentions for this very reason. But just because I occupy this corner that the consensus appears to have joined me in (and overshot in most cases – I think I’m now pretty conservative :O), that doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate the idea of only editing lines if they’re wrong. And I’d imagine your example is extreme and the CR scripts *are* mostly fine – hence why none of them have dropped below a B on 8th’s site (and even he notes that the lower grade is mostly down to house style being a bit… bland).

So yes, let it go – I suppose it might be nice if these groups with minimal editing did make themselves known, but you’ll probably get similar results with this post as you would by headbutting a nail into a wall so you can hang up your “I <3 Commie" signed picture frame.

Though, a question does spring to mind: If that's all that goes on in "minimalist editing", why could that role be swallowed up by QC? :S

Xythar says:

Who was this translator, out of curiosity?

And yeah, I think different translators (and different scripts) call for different approaches. Editing after fotc is practically a QC pass, for instance, but other translators often require a good deal more rewording.

If we say that each individual line falls into one of two categories:

A) lines that need to be improved
B) lines that are fine as they are

then logically, if we take a hypothetical script that consists entirely of lines that fall into category B, the correct approach must be not to edit.

I don’t think that’s really a bad thing – we should be happy in the quality of the source script instead and the fact that time was saved for more productive things.

I don’t believe editors should try to add their own ‘style’ or ‘flavour’ to the scripts they work on – the editor, in my opinion, is a support role to the translator whose purpose is to ensure the end translation is as naturally phrased (and grammatically correct) as possible. They should aim to fit in with the translator’s style and be transparent where possible.

Dark_Sage says:

Refusing to look at the bigger picture when it comes to scripts is a surefire way to damage a viewer’s experience. A significant portion of editing is phrasing and standardization. If a script reads line-by-line perfectly but as a whole it comes off as something that fifty different people worked on, then you’ve failed.

The role you’re describing is QC.

Anon says:

I think that you’re misunderstanding something. Commie don’t give a shit about “the user experience”, they just want download count and gratification.

Xythar says:

You’re reading too hard into that if you think I mean each line should only be looked at in a vacuum. If a line is out of place stylistically with the general tone of the script, or if it uses inconsistent terminology, it’s not “fine as it is”.

Maceart says:

By productive you should just stop wasting work on “editing” perfectly good subs.

Good riddance, Commie.

Tiger says:

Hmm…I understand where you’re coming from, but it seems like every other post or review is just D_S bashing the CR edit groups. Why not just omit those groups from reviews altogether? Save your breath and review HS releases alongside other ones from groups that have genuinely put in some effort.

Azurist says:

I’ve caught at least one obnoxiously obvious mistake per Commie release I’ve watched so far this season. Stuff like “She’s is the victor of the match” in their Kill La Kill release that’s terrible no matter how you cut it. So gotta agree here that their editors are asleep at the wheel.

Ofx says:

I’m not weeaboo enough to really know the difference between a bad sub and a good sub, so please fill me in.

I often just DL the CR/HS subs and live life just fine. But reading this review, it sounds like CR is doing some terrible shit to the translation or something.

So yeah, please help me understand why CR is doing such a bad job.

Dark_Sage says:

This post has nothing to do with Crunchyroll’s quality. I was talking about groups who take the Crunchyroll script, add typesetting and karaoke to it, and then release it while acting like they’re doing everyone such a huge favor by adding “so much” to it.

CR, in general, is fine.

Anon says:

Using your own review scheme, wouldn’t CRedits/’minimalist’ edits get higher grades, and therefore be better releases?

Dark_Sage says:

Yup. I never said they were worse (though herkz, for example, tends to go out of his way to ruin subs). I just don’t think they’re worth waiting for or worth your attention.

Anon says:

Commie is Commie, let’s not.

Maceart says:

Even Dark_Sage has pretty much admitted that Crunchyroll is taking over.

Fansubbing has been saved. Go home, editor groups who think they’re actually subbing something.

Chaos-kun says:

it’s rare to see Maceart comment here :o

anon says:

Even Dark_Sage has pretty much admitted that Commie’s DokiDoki! Precure is better than your group’s shitty effort.

Fansubbing has been saved. Go home, groups stuck in 2006 who brag about imprecise timing and 5th-grade level English.

Fuwaa says:

It’s more like Crunchyroll helped kill fansubbing. Not that I hate HorribleSubs, but it seems like groups have decided it’s not worthwhile to translate the shows themselves or bother checking the translations for Crunchyroll scripts.

I’d really, really like it if groups would see the streaming subs as a reason to take their time and polish scripts to a high standard before release; seeing the current standards, that doesn’t seem likely.

And since no one cares about my opinion, I’ll be watching raws. :D

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