[WhyNot vs. Hatsuyuki vs. Hiryuu] Whose Freezing Should You Watch?

Fansub Review, Subtitle Comparison — By on February 14, 2011 5:32 pm

This post was written by Dark_Sage. He is Dark_Sage.

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Please keep in mind that though I only looked at each sub for 5 minutes, there are only 50 lines of text during this time. Count up how many errors there are and divide by 50, and you’ll see the error rate for each sub.

WhyNot?

This comes off a comma and should therefore not be capitalized. It’s also not a sentence. ._.

Yes, this explanation sure makes sense to me.

Consistency, much?

lrn2/definite vs. indefinite/ It’s either “a Pandora” and “a Nova” or “the Pandora” and “the Nova”

Why do you have “then” there? It’s entirely irrelevant (and it makes the line read like shit) since you already mentioned this was in the past when you used “was”

“I don’t get it, either.” Either.


This would make sense if you used a question mark. However, I’d be surprised if basic punctuation wasn’t a longstanding issue with you guys.

THIS IS NOT THE IDIOM. http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/thorn

Comma, comma, comma, comma, comma-chameleon~

Failure rate: 18%. About one in every five lines is completely wrong.

WhyNot? More like WhyWouldYouEver? These results are even more sad because they come from the v2. I can only imagine how terrible the v1 was. Also, I never look at OPs, but I accidentally watched one second of theirs and got “Beat like a free color”. Really, guys? Really? Also, they managed to fuck up their timing. Yes, the most basic of fansubbing jobs. Yoki, I like you, but newfags like you guys really need to get some experience before you start your own fansub group. Fucking eye cancer.

Hatsuyuki

No need for a comma here (add the next sentence in and it reads very poorly)

Beings. There’s more than one Nova.

There are legitimate circumstances when you can start a sentence with “And” and not have it look like shit. This is not one of them, as “It is the Limiter’s role” sounds much fucking better.

Questions generally have question marks.

If you’re going to insist upon “short-lived”, then say “hopes, though short-lived,” Even then, I’d say “desires” is the better term to use.

“And how the boys” <_<

Failure Rate: 12%

The timing is also really poor at this group. It’s like Freezing attracts the dipshits. Christ, even I could do better and I’m deaf. (Not really, but let’s say I am for the sake of argument.)

Hiryuu

Ugh, Hiryuu. These guys claim that adding black bars to the video somehow makes it better. I wonder how good their English is.

You capitalize God, you do not capitalize gods. The last time I saw this error being made was in middle school. Fuckwits.

Read this one out loud.

No comma? Really?

There is no need for “so” here.

It appears the only group with people who speak English is Hatsuyuki.

I nearly threw up here. Seriously.

Failure Rate: 12%. Degree of Fail: 100%.

Results:

Hatsuyuki > WhyNot? ~= Hiryuu

Hatsuyuki had some definite mistakes, but they were much easier to ignore than the rest’s. WhyNot? and Hiryuu were both bad for different reasons. WhyNot? had a huge amount of errors, and Hiryuu had a much more acceptable amount. What it comes down to, if you refuse to get Hatsuyuki’s, is whether you prefer more errors that are relatively minor, or fewer errors with more pronounced mistakes. I prefer the former, but I consider WhyNot and Hiryuu to be pretty close in this analysis.

Edit: for those of you following the conversation in the comments, I’m not so sure it’s worth your time. Definite tl;dr

Here’s the breakdown of the players:

Harth, TLC of Hiryuu

Firebird, Editor/Leader of Hiryuu

EpicNaruto, Editor/Leader of WhyNot?

Grade:
Show:
Tags: , , , , ,

77 Comments

Nakito says:
February 14, 2011 at 8:32 pm

Seriously, you should find a good group to do the TLC. There are so many meaningless sentences that sometimes you feel like banging your head in the wall. I’m going to stick with Hatsuyuki for now. Thanks to you I will skip the “tasting”.

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Firebird says:
February 14, 2011 at 10:27 pm

Someone linked me this… no doubt hoping it’d create all manner of drama. I don’t bite that easily… but it would bug me if I didn’t at least respond. It’s not that I don’t care what the perception of our group is, it’s just I don’t care for drama.

Anyhow, thanks for doing the comparison for the Whine fans.

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Dark_Sage says:
February 14, 2011 at 11:04 pm

Yeah, no problem. Our fans deserve the best, so I’ll help them out any way I can.

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corocoro says:
February 14, 2011 at 11:12 pm

Just one quick question about the comparisons – from what I’ve seen you mostly compare editing – did translation accuracy figure into it?
Because if not (or too a small part only) this comparisons won’t help me – I can live with bad English (too much time on the internet, I guess), but not with translation errors. ;)

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Dark_Sage says:
February 14, 2011 at 11:19 pm

My specialty is editing, and I believe I’m very good at it. Thus, editing is the only thing I analyze in these posts.

If you can’t speak Japanese, then a translation error is irrelevant to you. And if you speak Japanese, you’re probably better off with the raws in the first place. But if there were someone with native-level Japanese skills who would be interested in pointing out errors in other groups, I would love to add him/her to the blogging team. That would definitely be a value-add perspective for the readers.

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corocoro says:
February 15, 2011 at 12:06 am

I was just wondering, since I asked some people with very good Japanese to check the releases as well – and their recommendations were almost a reversal of yours (forgot about Hina, admittedly), so I was more than a fair bit surprised. ;)
During the discussions there were also two or three groups which had major errors (been a while, so I don’t even remember the number, far less the names) which altered the whole meaning of what was being said.

I also don’t agree that those errors are irrelevant to me – I want to watch the releases which are most accurate in their translations, even if I can not verify it myself. I guess that is somewhat similar to people downloading FLAC files even though they won’t be able to hear the differences on their $50 speakers.

Anyway, for me correct English matters less than correct translation and for you it’s the reverse – so let’s leave it at that. ;)

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ano says:
February 16, 2011 at 12:22 am

i totally agree with you; i’m all for the accurate translation. english on the other hand, doesn’t affect me much because i can make sense out of the bad grammar.

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yahzee says:
February 14, 2011 at 10:54 pm

derpaderpaderp

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Harth says:
February 15, 2011 at 1:16 am

I also do not wish to stir up drama, but I would still at least like to offer counter-arguments for the comparisons you have put up for all three groups. Since I am a translator/TLC, I will at least point any significant translation errors that I can remember in the lines you have provided as examples.

WhyNot?
>Being foreign to our dimension
This first part of this line discussed that how upon a Nova’s manifestation into our world from their own dimension, they produce the Freezing field, so the line has been TLed incorrectly.

>I was just desperate to protect her then. That’s all.
Now, view this opinion how you may, but subtitles should usually be a reflection of the spoken Japanese, yes? You could remove then and therefore have only one instance referring to the past, but the JP line includes “ano toki” and “datta.” For argument’s sake, I could say that WhyNot has translated this literally and, therefore, “then” is a legitimate addition to the sentence. Maybe “back then” would help the sentence better though.

>I don’t get it myself.
As I stated before, subtitles are a reflection of spoken Japanese. Now, if this is so, wouldn’t using spoken English in subtitles be legitimate? After all, you are not typing up a paper for English class; you actually should be translating speech into speech, but obviously no one wants a Freezing fandub. “I don’t get it myself” is a legitimate spoken English phrase.

>Pretty flowers have thorns.
WhyNot is not using an idiom here. This is the literal translation for the line.

And yes, the English in the OP/ED is not that great.

Hatsuyuki
>The extra-dimensional being, Nova.
Debatable. If she is referring to the Nova as a whole, then yes, I would use plural. However, if she is referring to a single entity or the entity on the screen, singular can be used. This is just as if in biology class, your teacher presents you with a picture of a dog and introduces it as “the dog”. You are referring to the entity that has been put in front of you, not the entire dog population.

Hiryuu
>May the spirit of Kunlun vested in you light your path in life.
While I do agree it sounds awkward, it is a correct sentence. Light is a verb in this case. Read it again now.

>But beautiful flowers have thorns, you know.
If you are referring to the “you know” part, I bring up again the point of spoken Japanese and subtitled spoken English. “You know” is a legitimate addition to a phrase in spoken English. However, it is your own preference whether you choose to like subtitles written like textbook English or spoken english.

Once again, I do not mean to stir up any drama. I just thought it would be good to provide a counter-argument to your claims while being as objective as I could be. However, I do think that while editing is a very important aspect of subs, so is a correct translation. It somewhat bothers me that you would state that translation errors are irrelevant even to those who do not know Japanese. If the translated line is wrong, the edited line cannot be correct no matter what how perfect it may read or sound. Anyway, I ramble. Please feel free to debate the points I have brought up.

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Harth says:
February 15, 2011 at 1:32 am

Actually, I retract my Hatsuyuki statement about the singular form. The subsequent line refers to them in the plural form, so yes, the “s” is correct. Apologies.

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Dark_Sage says:
February 15, 2011 at 1:45 am

Apologies? Sir, I will never forgive you! >:o

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Dark_Sage says:
February 15, 2011 at 1:42 am

Perfect. Thanks for taking the time to write that.

If subtitles were a mere reflection of the Japanese dialogue, we would have very, very confusing dialogue. You translate the meaning of the dialogue so that viewers can understand it. Otherwise “Gokuro-sama!” becomes “Master Hardworker!” instead of “Good job!”

“I don’t get it myself” and “I don’t get it, either” mean the same thing in this context. The second one just sounds better.

It may be the literal translation, but it is so very close to the Englissh idiom, that any editor who keeps the translation direct is missing out on a great opportunity.

“The amphibious creature, Frog(s).” < - Sorry, that's not gonna work.
Edited out because Harth agrees.

I know what “light” means. I’m not retarded. My problem is with how badly “light your path in life” sounds.

I was referring to the lack of the proper idiom. Not “you know”.

And I believe I’ve been misunderstood regarding my views on TL errors. Of course I believe a good translation is the best, but I don’t know any Japanese, so don’t expect me to be able to find them. As I can’t tell whether something is correct or not, English becomes the only thing I can use to differentiate between subs. ._.

Your move. <3

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Harth says:
February 15, 2011 at 5:33 am

What I meant to talk about was translating speech into speech, not speech into textbook language. However, this is my view only. This has nothing to do with literal versus liberal translations as I was merely debating your editing claims.

Most of what you’ve refuted back seems to be mostly editing preferences, so I’m not sure what the hostility towards certain phrasings was about.

Yes, inserting the idiom may be a grand opportunity, but do realize that by doing so, you alter the translation. But as you have said, viewers who do not know Japanese will not be affected.

“Light your path” sounds fine to me. Not sure why you dislike it.

Again, inserting the idiom is an editor’s preference. I don’t see why WhyNot and Hiryuu should get docked for sticking with the translation.

I did not expect to have you point out significant errors in translation as I am aware you do not know Japanese (no offense intended). However, I think if you were to find someone willing to go through the episode and search for translation errors, you would find a decent amount of differences between WhyNot and Hatsuyuki/Hiryuu.

Regardless, I at least commend you on taking the time to post such a comparison for viewers.

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Dark_Sage says:
February 15, 2011 at 6:05 am

Of course a lot of this is based on personal preference. Lines which I say aren’t phrased properly may be shitty lines to me, and great lines to someone who’s not familiar with English. But if all we’re stuck with is an impasse where you say “Well, it’s understandable enough,” then I don’t think there’s any point to further discussion.

If a line sounds bad and there’s an easy fix for it, I’m going to call the person out for bad editing. If you were really adamant about no wrong doing, I’m sure I could spare some time to look through the other 20 minutes of your subs to find some things you can’t explain away by “it’s legible.”

“May the spirit of Kunlun vested in you light your path in life” sounds bad to me for various reasons. First off is the double “in”. Now, this is something I need to work on myself, because it’s often hard to get around. If this was the only problem, I’d be a hypocrite, so let me go deeper.

“light your path in life” is one of those things where I’m going to have trouble explaining why I think it sucks. It’s just so inherently bad to me that I can’t think of any way to explain this to someone who thinks it’s okay. This is a fault of my communication skills more than anything, so let me just point out how I’d write the sentence. “May the spirit of Kunlun, vested in you, be your guiding light.” Would you at least agree that this is a more succinct and clever way of getting the point across?

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Dark_Sage says:
February 15, 2011 at 6:13 am

Oh, and if you’re volunteering to be a fellow blogger who analyzes groups’ translations, I’d love to have you. :3

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Harth says:
February 15, 2011 at 11:21 pm

Yes, I am sure you could find more lines that are inherently wrong rather than lines that may or may not fit an editor’s preference. I would actually encourage you to as those would make for better comparisons than missing punctuation or subjective interpretations.

I agree the double “in” is somewhat awkward as English does not lend itself well to repetition at times. However, be it my preference or whatever, I do not like the alternative you have provided because first off, setting “vested in you” off in commas now defines it as an unnecessary clause. Also, to me, the pause provided by the commas makes the line sound more awkward if you were to read it out loud.

Second of all, the word life is removed. I can understand your urge to rephrase lines so that they flow better and sound smoother, but removing or changing certain words may change the translation (albeit not so much in this case). The spirit is her guiding light, but guiding light of what, to whom, or to where?

I’m sure you’d rather forget this example, but the most famous Freezing example of a no-no edit was the Breaching/Freezing in Whine’s episode one. That is a very good example of why lines should not be dramatically changed by the editor. Okay, you can lock that memory back into your vault now.

I am sure your viewers appreciate these comparisons and as do I. However, let me ask you this. How detrimental is a missing comma or incorrectly capitalized letter to an average viewer’s understanding of the subtitles? Little to none, correct? I can understand why you want to point out the punctuation errors, but I hardly think they deserve the same significance of a screenshot slot as badly phrased lines do. Wouldn’t just merely saying they have improper punctuation suffice? Of course, if they have copious amounts of errors, then I would see the point of posting it. Otherwise, it seems moot.

The lines you have pointed out in WhyNot like #2 and Hiryuu’s #2 and #6 are better and much more worthwhile comparisons. The missing punctuation will be but a passing thought, but the oddly phrased sentence or, in worst cases, unintelligible line is much more harmful to the viewer’s understanding of the subtitles. If it is a horrendously phrased line, the line might as well have been left untimed! Anyway, my final point is that if the goal is just to bash editing (not to say that you are), then go ahead and post every other missing comma. But if your goal is truly provide a good and valuable comparison to your viewers, then posting and commenting on the editing in regards to the flow and conciseness of the sutitles would seem to be the better option. This is your blog though, not mine, so do whatever you see fit and whatever floats your boat.

Also, thank you for the offer, but I will politely decline. I am a busy person as most of my group members can tell you. I would have posted a Freezing TL comparison, but seeing that I’m Hiryuu’s TLC for this show, it would be extremely biased which does no good for an objective comparison. Maybe you should punish TL-kun with comparison blogging if he ever resurfaces =P

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Dark_Sage says:
February 15, 2011 at 11:53 pm

The average viewer? The average viewer doesn’t read blogs. The average viewer has a rudimentary understanding of English and only downloads from groups whose names they recognize and whose releases say [Uncensored], even though every version released around that time is uncensored. The average viewer is not who I am writing for.

Sure, I could ignore the “minor” errors, but I don’t believe that would be fair to our readers who are expecting an accurate comparison of subtitles. I do agree, however, that the more severe errors deserve greater attention. Depending on how I format my comparison posts next season (I feel that my current style is a bit hard to read), I may end up going the “only severe errors” route. But as it stands, I feel that this format of blog post works rather well for the amount of time I’m willing to put into critiquing others’ subs. (The first 5 minutes of a show generally only contains about three minutes’ worth of subs. Expanding that would take quite a bit of time, and I’m not sure the value-add to the readers would be worth the time expended.)

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ano says:
February 16, 2011 at 12:37 am

totally agree with “subtitles are a reflection of spoken Japanese,” and that watching anime shouldn’t be reading from a textbook since it is a dialogue and we all know that most dialogue do not have correct english usage. for instance, just imagine how people would talk to each other in real life if you were to try to make it like a textbook style.

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Dark_Sage says:
February 16, 2011 at 3:21 am

Having proper grammar in subtitles does not negatively affect viewers’ understanding. If it does, you’re doing it wrong. You are under a fundamental misunderstanding that good English = bad subtitles. ._.

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sapphire says:
February 15, 2011 at 3:30 am

ok first off i don’t think its that bad cuz if you can still read the subs than who care? if you don’t even bother to realize the fact that people spend so much time on fansubz just so you can watch them then maybe u shouldn’t watch them. also like you don’t have to watch it if its bad and why don’t you like use ji-hi then you wouldn’t have to watch the whole episode your a lame loser and you don’t even know what its like to fansub you loser why don’t you try making a fansub alb y urself u freak wtf i bet you live in a closet you stupid freak your a freak

also why do you care if someone put a comma comma are stupid just like your FACE. YEAH thats a burn what do you think about that LOL hows this fo drama try to make a cum back! you can’t cuz you already got cum all over ur back you loser hahahahahah cuz your a freak.

anyway maybe you should stop caring so much about fansubs and stuff and stop going to the computer all day for ur needs then you wouldn’t care about stupid stuff like spelling idiot lo!!!!!l!

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Dark_Sage says:
February 15, 2011 at 3:44 am

Come now! Subtitles that are viewable are not subtitles at all! They must be held to the highest of standards and edited by professional copy editors and translated by a team of native Japanese speakers whose English is better than 99% of native English speakers. Subtitles should be the Word of God in text form, and anything less is blasphemous to my dear English language.

Implying that a comma is just a comma is heretical. They’re used for a reason! If anyone says differently, perhaps they should pick the Chicago APA MLA style manual and read that. If it’s in a book, it will doubtlessly show how every English speaker uses the language! After all, language is not a tool of the people – it is used only by authors! Commoners need not worry about it.

As for leaving my computer, that won’t happen. People need my help. They need me. Without me, there will be no guidance for these poor souls and they will be adrift on the sea of indecision. What about the mother with two kids she can barely feed? If she needs to search for which fansub group is best, her kids may starve! I’m just here to help by telling her which group to choose.

I am as a god, and I demand to be treated as such. Any negative comments will result in a furious backlash the likes of which you’ve never seen. And you don’t want that.

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sapphire says:
February 15, 2011 at 3:34 am

OMG YOU GOT ME A VALENTINES DAY GIFT IM SO SORRY PLZ DONT READ THAT COMMENT IM SO SORRY IM SORRY PLEASE

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Dark_Sage says:
February 15, 2011 at 3:35 am

Tsu~n~de~re

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sapphire says:
February 15, 2011 at 3:41 am

lol tsundere you are such a loser what are you talking about first off im not a tsundere your a bitchdere how do you like getting called names because you a bookish bitchdere. also just cuz u got me a valentines day doeeznt mene u can call me some random word you don’t even kno what dat mean you just make shit up who you think you are lady gaga you cant just make shit up and have that shit catch on. thats why people pissed at you cuz you push their button like they a robot well haven’t u seen smart house those bitches kick your ass and shit

y u on the internet you bookish

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NaruSaku_fan says:
February 15, 2011 at 3:44 am

sapphy and dark sitting in a tree

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BS04 says:
February 15, 2011 at 6:24 am

K-I-S-S-I-N-G~

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Krow says:
February 15, 2011 at 3:47 am

(°ロ°)

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Dark_Sage says:
February 15, 2011 at 3:47 am

Abuse me more, mistress! I-I’m not worthy of your love! ;_;

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sapphire says:
February 15, 2011 at 3:52 am

no i don’t want to abuse you please don’t say i abuse you why are you saying that please dont say that just lets be happy please

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NaruSaku_fan says:
February 15, 2011 at 3:54 am

cuz dark is the M of your S&M pair, the nana of your nana to kaoru

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Dark_Sage says:
February 15, 2011 at 3:56 am

All right. Let’s be happy… together. Happy Valentine’s day, Sapphire. It wouldn’t be a day worth celebrating without you. <3

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sapphire says:
February 15, 2011 at 3:59 am

together?! wtf is together!? i am alredy marryed to justaway what you mene together u mene you thought we where together? LOL!!! no we was never together you be dreamin son! anyway ur write its not worth livin without me but dont be saying we be together lol u bookish why would i be with you you bookish and a freak with cum on ur back lol go read a book moreon

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Dark_Sage says:
February 15, 2011 at 4:01 am




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ukMGnQohOw <- this is the vid I meant to post. No clue wtf the top one is. /wrists

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Dark_Sage says:
February 15, 2011 at 4:18 am

Now that’s music I can get behind. o/

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Dark_Sage says:
February 15, 2011 at 4:36 am

You… You hate me? Uguuuuuuuu…

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Damrod says:
February 15, 2011 at 8:14 am

*picks popcorn to eat* Anyone wants to take a guess how this soap is going to continue? Will he win her back or will she trample him like the M he is? Stay tuned for the next episode of love triangle on whinesubs.

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Firebird says:
February 15, 2011 at 6:44 pm

Ugh… fine I’ll bite if it means people stop linking me this.

I’m going to go ahead and comment on all your… comments.

WhyNot?
Screens:
#1 Can’t disagree. Minor.
#2 Yeah… can’t disagree.
#3 Too lazy to check, but I assume you to be right. Translation on the second screenie here is wrong, according to our TLs too.
#4 “pandoras” with no a or the would also work.
#5 Yup
#6 I think myself is fine, but I’ll concede either does sound better.
#7 Aye. Minor.
#8 From your link McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs. © 2002 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc. Note, American. That said, I’m not American and have heard the phrase. Though I think this is very minor and the TL/edit is fine as is.
#9 Maybe they don’t like Boy George?
Comments:
Can’t comment on timing, I haven’t seen the ep. Same for OP/ED.

Hatsuyuki
#1 Don’t know the next sentence without looking, I’ll take your word for it.
#2 Aye.
#3 Without checking I can’t disagree or agree. But on the face of it, I would assume you to be correct again.
#4 Aye.
#5 This line actually seems awkward to me. That said hopes seems fine.
#6 Aye.
Comments:
Can’t comment on timings. Didn’t watch.

Hiryuu
Comments:
Given I’m from Hiryuu I can offer a little extra insight.
Your starting comments about the black bars, we don’t suggest it’s outright better across the board, in fact we even say the 960 is better suited to some users.
Quoted from here: http://www.hiryuufansubs.com/faq/freezing
Why is Freezing 1280×720 when it’s only aired in 4:3?

Because the OP/ED are 16:9, but the episode itself 4:3. We chose to envelope the entire episode, and not the OP/ED. This is better for 16:9 monitors as you’ll only get one set of black bars, which you’d get anyway. If we’d gone 960×720 the 16:9 monitors would get 4 black bars on OP/ED. Conversely, the opposite is true for 4:3 monitors. 960×720 versions have the OP/ED enveloped and work better on 4:3 monitors. We’re also aware you can force the 960*720 into 16:9 stretching… but then it looks quite horrible.

The link has screenshots to show the black border issues on both 4:3 & 16:9 monitors too. Also, as you’ve previously seen Dark_Sage, a direct comparison of our raw against the raw I assumed you used, and that which WhyNot used on episode 02, fullscreen on a 1080p monitor; http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/23964.

Anyhow, that aside, I was personally the editor for this episode (05) usually, I’m not the editor – Darkside is. I hate editing, I usually only do minor editing as I time, but that week my usual editor wasn’t around when I wanted him. Next time I might come annoy you to do it :P

Screenies:
#1 Aye.
#2 Is fine IMO, though perhaps a comma after you. That said, I do actually like the suggestion you gave Harth.
#3 Aye.
#4 But I was just so desperate to get it right… I don’t see the problem with keeping so.
#5 Refer to WhyNot #8.
#6 I have absolutely no excuse for letting this go, nor do my QCs.

Results comments:
Other than the last screenie, in the batch you compared I’d say Hiryuu didn’t have that many “illegible sentences”.
As for all three groups… I’m with Harth on this, subtitles are spoken English, not textbook English; envision the entire thing in speech marks. He isn’t suggesting everything be a literal or direct translation at all.
As for your order, that’s you choice ofc. Based on the screenshots provided however, the number and type of errors pointed out, I don’t think I’d have put Hiryuu last, but perhaps I’m being biased. Or maybe it’s the black bars you don’t like?

Anyhow, there’s your full response. Now everyone stop frigging linking me this.

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Dark_Sage says:
February 15, 2011 at 9:21 pm

http://www.crymore.net/: Where the strongest argument against my posts is “I agree with you on most everything.”

http://bit.ly/gB1Idn

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EpicNaruto says:
February 16, 2011 at 3:51 pm

http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=search&user=89641&cat=0_0&filter=0&term=freezing+uncensored

http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=search&cat=0_0&filter=0&term=freezing+whine+720

I do believe that the leechers have already shown which version they are watching ( ¯3¯)~.

If I wasn’t a lazy fuck I would dissect your version… Or comment on the other releases you claim are fail. Granted, I don’t really care enough about some dead group to do so ┐(￣ー￣)┌.

#1 is a stylistic difference in whether or not new subtitle lines should all be capitalized or not (no idea if we keep consistent with one or the other though).
#2 TL error.
#3 Slipped by us (Yuigg loves to capitalize everything).
#4 That’s not really an error but a difference of style. “a Pandora” doesn’t fit with “a Nova” in this sentence. “the Pandora” and “the Nova” is probably fine though. The problem with both definite or indefinite is that the line is referring to a single Nova and multiple Pandora. Learntoactually comprehend what you are watching.
#5 The line reads fine but “back then” is indeed better.
#6 The line is fine; although “either” works.
#7 Probably should have been a question mark.
#8 Docked for proper translation. (☞ﾟ∀ﾟ)☞ O U
#9 Slipped by us.

So, while I was writing this, I remembered some of your own errors without needing to download or do any work – http://www.ji-hi.net/freezing/Whine-Subs/08-dialog5.png and breaching. Errors happen to everyone. You are no exception, clearly. Also, I seem to recall a certain episode of a certain series that was timed to a completely different raw and still released…

Good luck with your next new group Dark_Sage. I hope you last long enough to actually compete with us since you are so fond of it. Whine-subs? More like, WhineSomeMoreYouButthurtDeadGroup.

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Dark_Sage says:
February 16, 2011 at 4:27 pm

Ahahaha

It took a public shaming for you to finally say what you were thinking? Ah, duplicitous snakes are truly the best. Allow me to just quote what you said about us on your own blog.

this isn’t a bloody competition. We want to release, and they want to release.
P.S. I don’t see anything wrong with either release and things like anidb or MAL ratings have absolutely no meaning whatsoever.

Suck it up, dude. You’re just really bad at editing. Whether or not I have a translator does not change the fact that you’re not very good at English. I already dissected your episode 1 for you, which you probably forgot about (and I never ended up posting it, but you had 20 errors in your first episode). I also checked out your Dragon animu. You’re worse than Crunchyroll. I just didn’t say anything cuz I didn’t wanna hurt your feelings. Y’know, cuz we’re bros ‘n shit.

Oh, and BTW you suck at encoding. Have a nice day, friend.

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EpicNaruto says:
February 17, 2011 at 1:01 am

“You suck cause I said so lololololol.”

Nice logic.

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Harth says:
February 16, 2011 at 5:02 pm

EpicNaruto, you are missing the point of his post entirely. Yes, his group is dead, but obviously that means he can no longer promote his own group. This was not about which version is more popular; this was about him giving a comparison to show which version uses English more correctly. Sure, there was some overt hostility in Dark_Sage’s initial post, but he has been civil in his subsequent responses.

You seem only to be focused on the number of downloads and the popularity of the group which is absolutely fine, but, again, that is not the purpose of this post.

Dark_Sage, earlier I was not suggesting that you ignore the minor errors. It is just that missing commas or incorrect capitalization can easily be mentioned as a side note. The examples of badly phrased lines seem much more deserving of spotlight than the minor errors.

Anyway, with these recent posts, this seems to be slowly turning into a drama war, so I will most likely back out. It has been enjoyable and good luck on your subsequent endeavors, Dark_Sage.

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Dark_Sage says:
February 16, 2011 at 6:09 pm

I was actually thinking about what you said when I was dozing off in class yesterday. With the new format I’m thinking off, it would definitely be more beneficial to do as you say and I thank you for mentioning it, otherwise I’d keep doing the same ol’ thing.

Thanks for the well-wishes, Harth. Catch ya around. Firebird is lucky to have someone like you on his team. :3

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EpicNaruto says:
February 16, 2011 at 6:31 pm

Nah, I didn’t miss the intention. I simply ignored it because he loves dorama. Why not give him some? I mean, people have already pointed out the errors with his releases so why reinvent the wheel? Have a scroll through the comments again yee who is the perfect editor.

http://www.crymore.net/2011/01/freezing-01/

Also, his claims are simply nitpicking at this point. A missing comma here and there is not “Everything is wrong.”

Regardless, have fun and keep on trolling. I enjoy every bit of it. And for the same reason, I never ban Shampoo – it’s amusing.

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Dark_Sage says:
February 16, 2011 at 7:25 pm

* You were kicked from #WhyNot? by Comiket (Zyaa ne)
#WhyNot? unable to join channel (address is banned)

I don’t quite see how banning me from your channel results in more amusement, but I guess I’ll never understand the logic behind someone who calls himself EpicNaruto.

As for “here and there”, you’re being willfully ignorant considering that happens once every five lines. It reflects on your poor skills as an editor. I gave you constructive criticism after your first release, but you never reflected on it. Swallow your pride and your releases will improve considerably. /protip

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EpicNaruto says:
February 17, 2011 at 12:14 am

Shame you didn’t try to join a few seconds later…

[11:48] * Comiket sets mode: +b *!*@desu.desu.desu
[11:48] * Dark_Sage was kicked by Comiket (Zyaa ne)
[11:49] * Yoki sets mode: -b *!*@desu.desu.desu

I really can’t be bothered to care anymore about this comparison. We make mistakes like everyone else, but some missing commas are not the end of the world. You’re exaggerating with “every five lines” as well. There is a difference between wrong and different editing styles. Simply because you don’t like it, doesn’t make it wrong. Regardless, a piece of humble pie and a dead group await you.

You should review your own recent work before trying to point the finger at others. “Have a scroll through the comments again yee who is the perfect editor. http://www.crymore.net/2011/01/freezing-01/” and that disaster of a release that you called IS episode 02. You want to say that everyone else’s releases suck except your own releases, but you seem to like ignore your own mistakes. “Swallow your pride and your releases will improve considerably. /protip” right back at you. Oh wait…

Have fun in the land between “no one cares” and “butthurt” Dark_Sage.

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Dark_Sage says:
February 17, 2011 at 3:24 am

You seem to conveniently forget that whenever we had serious errors, we v2’d, which was for an episode 1 and an episode 2. I would encourage you to check our last releases and determine exactly how bad we did. You’ll see how a real editor works. ;)

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Leader_of_a_Nameless_Group says:
February 19, 2011 at 11:44 pm

Harth, I love Hiryuu’s work for freezing. It might not be perfect to someone else, but it has the most well-balanced subtitles(translation/editing-wise) compared to that of the other groups. Keep up the great work TLC’ing it!

p.s. I also prefer using spoken English when it’s appropriate.

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Firebird says:
February 16, 2011 at 9:45 pm

this isn’t a bloody competition. We want to release, and they want to release.
P.S. I don’t see anything wrong with either release and things like anidb or MAL ratings have absolutely no meaning whatsoever.

MAL/aniDB ratings have more meaning to the quality of the subs then the number of leechers. Example, HS often release first, the hardsubbed stuff they rip is horri-bad. Why do they get the most leechers? Because they release first and have a green bar. They are also an established group and reliable. The most leechers doesn’t mean the best group.

That said, I also agree aniDB/MAL are by no means accurate. They can easily be trolled, and downvoted without any true merit, the opposite of course is also true. The more votes a single groups has on a series, the more accurate they are likely to become though imo. I know for example one leader who blindly downvotes other groups (not me).

Qualitysubs and speedsubs don’t often go together.

Dark_Sage never said anything about popularity or number of downloaders. He nitpicked, yes I agree he did, butt hat’s his job as an editor and his prerogative as a sub-comparer. You defended where you thought necessary… but c’mon let’s all be friends!!

epicNaturo, Dark_sage may be butt hurt, and I think I would be too if my group ceased. But you seem extremely upset, people make comparisons, they look for errors. They won’t always be right, they won’t always be wrong and sometimes they won’t be either, it’ll be opinionated.

At the end of the day we each sub for our own reasons, I do it because I enjoy it. Your viewers will decide your worth, not one guy on a blog (though some may take his opinion into account ofc).

So, whose up for a big gay orgy?

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EpicNaruto says:
February 17, 2011 at 12:28 am

I would agree that the first released will generally get the most downloads and therefore that is a skewed way of comparing, but we only released first for a single episode. The rest of the time though, we released after he did. Just saying.

Also, I have no problem with someone pointing out our errors. It’s helpful. But not even the majority of those are actual errors… Regardless of the point of the post, it is the spirit as well as the way it was written that is the problem.

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shit says:
February 17, 2011 at 3:31 am

STOP MOTHER FUCKING USING SUCH LONG PARAGRAPHS FAGGOTS!!

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Dark_Sage says:
February 17, 2011 at 3:57 am

Okay, I had a long reply typed up, but I figured I’d just tl;dr it for you:

While I would love to comply with your request, there are a few reasons why this is impossible.
1. I need to seem like a cool and important person. The longer the line, the longer the e-penis. Sure, I could sum my shit up with one sentence, but that would generally involve the words “fuck off, you mongoloid prick”, which does not appear to be conducive to good debate.
2. This is the equivalent of a large mammalian bird puffing out its feathers to scare away potential predators or other birds. I figure that the longer my sentences are, the less likely people are to reply to them. He who posts last wins, as per the rules of the Last Sentence enacted on Slepping Elementary’s playground in 1976.
3. We are unable to summarize our points concisely. Every word is necessary. And the more words we use, the smarter we seem. As you probably have noticed, my popularity among 18-25 year old females has increased by 10% as a result of these arguments. They appear to be relating this to my masculinity, which I must agree is very true.
4. I find Onii-chan is my Fuckpillow to be a fantastic anime, and it is being subbed by GotWoot. I was surprised by their quality, and when they asked me to join their team, it was like winning the lottery or even finding a quarter on the ground. Yes, it was that fucking good. I totally suggest watching this show because the dialogue is just fantastic. Trust me, the TL notes we get in the staff channel are absolutely amazing.
5. Five is a number. I didn’t wanna leave it at 4, so I brought it all the way up to 5. I hope you appreciate my efforts.

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Acenchious says:
February 17, 2011 at 8:08 pm

Can’t you make a TL review of the following series: Kore wa Zombie desu ka?, Dragon Crisis, Hourou Musuko (Wandering Son), Wolverine, Fairy Tail, Beelzebub, Naruto and Blech, because your opinion on these matters rule, no kidding. I pray that this group would rise from the ashes and give me my fix of Freezing and Infinite Stratos.

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Dark_Sage says:
February 18, 2011 at 5:10 am

I don’t really have much of an opinion on those shows. Going off group names, you’re best with Doki for Kore Wa and Underwater for Dragon Crisis. Ryugan for Fairy Tail wouldn’t be a bad choice either. Sorry I can’t really help. Next season will be different~

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Acenchious says:
February 23, 2011 at 7:08 pm

Thanks =D great help :) What shows are you watching next season?

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Dark_Sage says:
February 23, 2011 at 9:44 pm

Next season I’ll be critiquing all of them.

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Tuskani says:
February 18, 2011 at 3:31 am

The only one who threw a bitch-fest about this post is apparently a Naruto fan. Not surprised.

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stupidpostisstupid says:
February 18, 2011 at 4:56 pm

Actually the aggressive nature of this whole post was meant to rile people up and I’m surprise alot of people did not bite. That just shows the maturity of the different group as oppose to this author. I’m quite disappointed at the way he went about his little rant. Whatever its his website so he can do whatever he wants. But it also shows alot of his character and maybe thats one of the reason why the translator just doesn’t give a fuck anymore and left as oppose to working with him.

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Sunny says:
February 28, 2011 at 1:01 am

Obviously you’ve never had friends before and you have no idea how friendships work.

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Killers says:
February 18, 2011 at 5:50 pm

LOL!!! Dark_Sage is just shitting with you guys!haha! He doesn’t have anything else to do since he got kicked from Ayako fansubs!LOL!
Anyway Dark_Sage you’re a pro on things like this… Keep it up for the rest of your life, maybe just spend your whole life doing nothing except for shitting. :P
+props to you!

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Sunny says:
February 19, 2011 at 11:49 am

FAIL MOAR AT IMPERSONATION PLZ~

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Killers says:
February 26, 2011 at 4:42 pm

What are you talking about retard?

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Sunny says:
February 27, 2011 at 2:51 am

Nothing mang, just wondering if you were still mad.

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Durandal says:
March 26, 2011 at 5:39 am

Hello Dark Sage,

I found really odd case where each fansub uses a different interpretation for the same line in episode 5 of Freezing:

Aproximately on 12:59, the second of the 3 second years that attack Kazuya and his friends introduces herself and she says her given title. However all 3 fansubs have given her a different title:

Takeuchi Aika’s Title

WhyNot
The Bloodless

Hiryuu
Manipulator of Water

Hatsuyuki
Silver Leaf of Intoxication

Can you please tell us which title is the correct one (if any)?

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Dark_Sage says:
March 27, 2011 at 1:15 am

All right, I asked a retired TL who’s a friend of mine.

< @Dark_Sage> I need to know what Takeuchi Aika calls herself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh9hrZ440mM
< @Dark_Sage> She’s the second person who speaks
< @Dark_Sage> the other parts are included just to frame it
< @Basaka> Ok, what were the translations
< @Dark_Sage> The Bloodless
< @Dark_Sage> Manipulator of Water
< @Dark_Sage> Silver Leaf of Intoxication
< @Basaka> 陶酔の銀幕
< @Basaka> silver screen of Intoxication
< @Basaka> it seems
< @Basaka> form what she said
< @Basaka> and if he asks where I got the kanji say Wiki.ja
< @Dark_Sage> All right. Thankies <3

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Durandal says:
March 27, 2011 at 5:05 am

Thank you Dark Sage.

I have also checked what the english wiki had to say. In the single line for Aika’s profile, the same kanji indicated by Basaka is included. However in the profile it is translated as Manipulator of Water, just like Hiryu translated it.

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Dark_Sage says:
March 27, 2011 at 7:51 am

That’s very interesting. I actually had a second TL look at it as well. This is what he said:

< @Fallere528> hrm anyway. she kind of says it in muttering kind of way.. but uh, I suppose she’s saying: ‘Similarly, I’m Takeuchi Aika, known as the ‘Silver Curtain of Intoxication.’ yet, the ‘tousui no ginbaku’ wording makes me also believe it may possibly mean: ‘high command of silver,’ uh, maybe something like ‘master of silver,’ in another sense; seeing what her ability is would help…

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Harth says:
March 28, 2011 at 7:16 am

For another opinion, FUNi TLed her title as Intoxicating Bondage. (I got curious :x )

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Harth says:
March 28, 2011 at 7:21 am

Forgot to add the kanji/romaji for it, silly me.
tousui no kinpaku/陶酔の緊縛

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ThumperZ1 says:
April 1, 2011 at 4:12 am

As an editor of Freezing for Hatsuyuki, thanks for the critique. I know mistakes are made all the time. We aren’t professionals, we are volunteers. There’s a big difference. (Well, maybe not to some of the DVD companies.) If I’m watching an episode that I think has blatant errors, but want to keep the series, I just re-edit it myself. And as far as my own stuff, I don’t mind doing a version 2.

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Zalis says:
May 2, 2011 at 7:54 am

It’s too bad nobody ever ripped Funimation’s streams for this show. At least in the episode I watched (03), the subtitles are flawless when it comes to English technical errors like the ones described in this post. People who get bent out of shape over R1-style localization won’t like them, though. If not for the fact that Funi’s streams use the 16:9/censored version, I’d easily recommend them over any of the fansub releases.

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that guy says:
April 28, 2012 at 8:15 pm

… dark sage has a stick up his ass sometimes …

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Marieke says:
January 26, 2013 at 9:19 pm

You capitalize God, you do not capitalize gods. The last time I saw this error being made was in middle school. Fuckwits.

Seriously, why couldnt you capitalize gods…
you will be blesse by the gods is very well possible. even if YOU believe there is only one :)

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