Fansub Review: [Commie] Zero no Tsukaima F (Episode 03)

B-Tier, Fansub Review — By on February 18, 2012 7:07 am

This post was written by Dark_Sage. He is Dark_Sage.

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I hate this show so much.

Release format: MKV (295 MB, 10-bit)

Japanesiness: No honorifics.

Group website: http://commiesubs.com/

8thsin’s translation critique: N/A

Ji-hi’s screenshot comparisons: N/A

 

Karaoke.

Opening. Commie hit the nail on the head. I really love openings where the only readable text is positioned one pixel from the top edge. Bonus points when the font is shitty and way too small. At least they did the color changes right.

Ending. I know this is going to be a big surprise, but when you make the line harder to read the closer you get to the middle, it becomes harder to read the closer you get to the middle.

 

Typesetting.

 

Script.

He’s not referring to it as an expression because “the mind’s eye” isn’t an expression, you ignorant fucks.

“In my world, we have something known as ‘the mind’s eye’.” (This is exactly how a human would say it.)

With the amount of “God” references in the script, I felt like I was being preached to by a crazy homeless guy on the street. And no, none of the references fit. Saito as a god-praiser? He spends the entire arc criticizing the fucking church and Louise’s faith. Joseph as a religiously motivated individual? Really, now? Come the fuck on.

Take the Christian trash responsible for this mess and throw him to the lions.

Saito has a sword and Joseph has a gun. Guns aren’t swords.

 

Watchability: Quite watchable.

Overall grade: B+

I guess Commie’s only real competition on this is JC-SHiN-gx. Compared to a group that isn’t quite sure of how to mux and couldn’t even manage karaoke on their first episode, I’d say I’m putting my confidence into Commie on this one.

Grade:
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45 Comments

mrbogangles says:

i think static subs is doing this now too. kinda slow though.
are you going to review them too?
thanks for this

8thSin says:

Don’t waste your energy on shitty shows :P

lygerzero0zero says:

8th do we get an InuBoku review? D:

Xythar says:

>Take the Christian trash responsible for this mess and throw him to the lions.

Whoever that person is they work for Crunchyroll, so that might be a little difficult for us to do. I guess when editing this we could take out all “God” references and completely rewrite Joseph’s motivations, so that lines such as “It’s called Acceleration. For what purpose did God grant me this spell?” now read “It’s called Acceleration. For what purpose did this spell evolve within me over a long period of time as proven by scientific evidence?” but to be honest I figure it was probably translated that way for a reason, and changing the meaning of various sentences just to avoid offending you would probably be overstepping our bounds as editors.

By the way, I don’t edit or watch this show.

Progeusz says:

Or you could simply change all the christian “God”s to normal, non-specific “god”s.

Xythar says:

It’d sort of work in the case of “Thank god” (though I almost guarantee you someone would complain about it not being capitalised) but there’s no way you could write out something like “For what purpose did god grant me this spell?” and not have it look blatantly wrong.

Progeusz says:

I initially didn’t want to believe that there could be some complaints, but when I was skimming through first five pages of google results for “thank god” it was capitalised every signle time…
Afaik only christian god should be capitalised, others have their names so “god” is general and fits all of them. It’s just pure specualtion on my part though, as I don’t know much about ZnT’s religion and have yet to watch the show.

Dark_Sage says:

Yeah, it’s technically gotta be capitalized. As for “Thank God!” it’s just an expression of relief. And there are hundreds of phrases that could go in place of it.

“I’m glad you’re safe!” “Thank goodness!” etc.

Xythar says:

Yeah, but what I’m saying here is that plenty of atheists say “God” every day and mean nothing by it. As you just said, it’s just an expression of relief.

Why should we have to go through and censor the script just because one particular form of that expression offends you?

Dark_Sage says:

>censor the script

What the fuck am I even reading?

Correcting a shitty translation isn’t censorship. ._.

Xythar says:

“Thank God” and “Thank goodness” mean the same thing. Using the first one does not mean that you are religious or that you believe in God.

I’m not sure what else you’d call the practice of changing one expression to another completely equivalent expression because people might be offended by a particular word.

I’m also glad to hear you now know enough Japanese that you can call out Crunchyroll’s translations as being shitty. Can we expect you to start reviewing translation accuracy in the future as well?

Shitty says:

I’m not really sure, but I guess D_S was talking about that expression being used by Saito, since he’s been constantly criticizing Louise’s faith and devotion. I might be wrong, though.

Xythar says:

He specifically mentioned Joseph as well so I grabbed the script to see what he was talking about. Anyway though, I dunno – I’m not familiar enough with the source material to say, but I can say in general that when editing Crunchyroll or other prosubs we try not to change lines that otherwise read fine unless we have reason to believe that they’re a translation error.

Plenty of atheists still say “God” all the time as an exclamation or for emphasis without actually believing said “God” exists, it’s just a part of the English language at this point.

Dark_Sage says:

“For what purpose did God grant me this spell? It’s as if He’s urging me to hurry.” totally sounds like a legit translation. Come on. It’s not even hard to edit away the Christianity.

“For what purpose was I given this spell? It’s as if I’m being compelled to hurry.”

That took me a second to think of. Don’t tell me your editors are so shit they couldn’t do the same.

Xythar says:

Took a second to think of – and changes the meaning of the line significantly. This is precisely the kind of change that you should not make as an editor without confirming it with your TLC.

Unfortunately none of our translators are online now for me to check this myself so I’ll just leave the clip here instead in case 8th or some other wandering TL wants to check it over:
http://notesmash.org/stuff/znt.wav

I could have sworn I could hear him say the word “kami” in the first line, but my Japanese comprehension is not the best.

Dark_Sage says:

None of your translator is online? Let me know when he wakes up and perhaps he can have your back on why “Thank God” is so integral to the show.

Xythar says:

I almost feel as though you might be getting a little mad here, dude. Let’s keep it cool.

Dark_Sage says:

Apologies. I’ve been kind of on-edge lately. But that’s no excuse to act like a dickwad. Sorry.

Ignoring my sharp tongue, my basic argument is that I don’t think the use of religious (Christian) language is needed or even contextually supported here. Making it more secular wouldn’t change anything of value. The phrasing makes Joseph seem out of character as well, which I don’t think is a good idea.

Xythar says:

Okay, but:

Xythar that clip says “kami”
So yeah, he says exactly what the TL says

Dark_Sage says:

Kami means more than “Christian deity”.

Xythar says:

Pretend each of those lines started with the name “Arnavion|work” on IRC because I didn’t think that stuff inside angle brackets would get filtered out here thanks to HTML.

Xythar says:

Why does “God” have to refer specifically to the Christian deity in this context? They’re in a fantasy world where (I assume) there aren’t even any Christians in the first place.

I have no idea what else you would write that as except maybe “the gods” which would also be technically incorrect if there was only one. He’s obviously saying that he was granted the spell by a higher power.

Dark_Sage says:

Five seconds on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kami article and you have enough to go off of.

I don’t see your problem with “For what purpose was I given this spell? It’s as if I’m being compelled to hurry.” If you really don’t understand the line, add “by something.” to the end of it. The implication is that there is some force (“Kami (神?) is the Japanese word for the spirits, natural forces, or essence in the Shinto faith.”) rushing him along. What’s wrong with this?

puddizzle says:

You know, “Thank the heavens” seems like a nice compromise, but…

Xythar says:

We’re not talking about that line and no, it sounds kind of dumb to me.

puddizzle says:

Derp. Let me hide back into my little corner of the world.

Dark_Sage says:

Come back, pud. If you leave, it’ll be just me and Xythar. :X

Xythar says:

Oh, I didn’t notice your comment because you added it further up the thread.

I was just going by the dictionary:
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1Q%BF%C0_1_%A4%AB%A4%DF

Saying “for what purpose was I given” leaves it vague as to who granted him the spell, whereas from what I’ve been told the original line makes it fairly clear. Hence, it changes the meaning.

I don’t think either of us are really qualified to be taking part in a translation debate so I’m not sure there’s much point in continuing this. My rule is when in doubt, go with the original line unless it sounds completely awful (not the case here) and don’t bother changing lines for equivalent expressions that mean the same thing if there was no problem with the original one.

As I said, people can use the word “God” as an expression or exclamation without specifically referring to the Christian God, and many people do so every day. If that offends you then I’m sorry but it’s something you’re going to have to work out on your own.

Xythar says:

Oh, also:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/expression

“a particular word, phrase, or form of words: ‘old-fashioned expressions.'”

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/expression

“A colloquialism or idiom.
‘The expression ‘break a leg!’ should not be taken literally.'”

Unless you literally have an eye in your mind I’m pretty sure that the phrase “the mind’s eye” counts as an expression, bro.

Dark_Sage says:

It still doesn’t work. Try 14:28 in the subs and watch for like five seconds. He’s saying he can actually manifest the mind’s eye to beat Joseph. You can’t manifest an idiom. I would have grudgingly accepted “concept” over “expression”, but try saying that line aloud and tell me how good it sounds.

“In my world, we have something known as ‘the mind’s eye’.” is pretty much the best way you can rock this.

subfan says:

Can you also review the release made by Static Subs. Their group was the best for all the previous seasons.

Dark_Sage says:

They’re only on episode 2. I’ll wait until they catch up before watching their stuff.

KenKai says:

“Guns aren’t swords.”

You’re right, it would have to be a pair of guns to be considered a sword.

alex says:

Have you ever seen the Romeo and Juliet movie with Leonardo DeCaprio in it? I ask because “Guns aren’t swords” made me think of this:

http://www.pixelscapes.com/multiplex/romeo/lo/thisismyboomstick.jpg

guns are swords :P

Le Anon says:

In case you didn’t know, there were no “good” raws when episode one aired. For all I know, AT-X .ts raws are hard to encode. The only raws were available that time were that lomo LQ raw and that over-saturated Korean raw. Think about it: If they release a pre-edited script with a shit raw, you’d give them an F+. Have you checked their karaoke in episode two at least?

Your reviews affect the decisions of any idiot who happens to read them. At least provide up-to-date facts.

Xythar says:

I don’t know what you’re talking about but right now they are still only up to episode 2. Considering episode 7 airs tomorrow, I would think that the people who really want to watch SS are already waiting for them and other people probably aren’t going to be swayed into waiting 6+ weeks for them to catch up just because they got a positive review. This is assuming they’re actually any good, of course, and after seeing their work on Shana I’m not so sure of that ~de arimasu.

Dark_Sage says:

Are you retarded or something? Where the fuck did I talk about encoding? I didn’t say a damn thing about it. Also, the karaoke is the exact same in episode 2. What’s the problem here?

Xythar says:

I think he’s talking about SS’s release but failed to reply to the correct comment. I’m not sure though, that post wasn’t entirely comprehendable for me.

Firefox is telling me that “comprehendable” isn’t even a word but I don’t even care, bitch. That’s how I roll.

blargh says:

A ‘kami’ in a show set in a pseudo-western setting does not refer to the shintoist concept of kami.

You should not make these assumptions without Japanese comprehension, Mister Weeaboo.

blargh says:

I feel like driving the point home today.

Genesis, 1-3, Japanese translation from 1958.

はじめに、神は天と地を造られた。地はむなしく何もなかった。やみは深淵の上にあり、神の霊は水の上をおおい動いていた。
神が、「光あれ」と言われると、光があった。

Hajime ni, kami wa ten to chi wo tsukurareta. Chi wa munashiku nani mo nakatta. Yami wa shin’en no ue ni ari, kami no tama wa mizu no ue wo ooi ugoiteita.
Kami ga, “Hikari are” to iwareru to, hikari ga atta.

Long story short: You are wrong, Dark_Sage.

You also suck big time for postulating outraging shit all the time that is frankly wrong but too exhausting to argue.

Dark_Sage says:

I’m not saying kami doesn’t ever mean “Christian God”. I’m saying in the context of the show, and the characters saying the fucking lines, it’s better to use less religion-specific language. Don’t twist my words.

blargh says:

They mean the christian God, though. Or at least a God like it. All your objections are baseless.

Which other God would it refer to? The show looks like the fucking renaissance. It sure isn’t a shintoist, animist spirit.

Dark_Sage says:

Oh goddammit. I really did not want to get into this discussion. Okay, fine. Let’s talk about the show.

Zero no Tsukaima is based in Europe, true. And there is a country that’s based entirely around what looks to be the Christian religion — The Holy Empire of Romalia. But we’re not talking about the Romalians here. We’re talking about the Gallians, which Joseph is the king of. Now, let’s look at Gallic history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaul also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaul#Religion
Note that Gaul only existed up until 500 AD, and there is no mention of its people adopting Christianity. They were fucking animist. And what’s close to animism? Oh, Shinto? Like what I’d been implying all along? Well, fancy that.

Hence, “King of Gallia, Joseph” is most likely NOT Christian. He may prescribe his good fortunes to some outside force, but it sure ain’t Jehova.

blargh says:

Are you seriously implying the Japanese know or care about ancient European history? They just used a name they dug up on Wikipedia. We’re all Christians to them.

A polytheistic religion wouldn’t address one of their Gods with just ‘Kami’ in Japanese, it would specify somehow. Especially in prayers or specific references. If for some reason you suspect that the body of Gods is referred to here (such as ‘The Heavens’, ‘The Gods’), you are also wrong. There are countless way to reference higher powers in Japanese, but using just Kami and nothing else means almost always the Christian God. If you wished to refer to a polytheistic body of Gods, you’d use 神々, 天つ神, 天神 or one of the terms I can’t remember right now.

You are fighting a hopeless battle here. I know I am completely right.

The Japanese for this line is not ambiguous and it doesn’t refer to old French Gods. It refers to a monotheistic entity modelled at the very least after the Christian God, if not the Christian God proper. If you doubt me, ask a competent translator.

Perhaps that’ll put a stop to your endless antics.

blargh says:

I also find it highly offensive that you would even fancy yourself qualified to comment on this based on a word someone else transcribed for you, which you then looked up on Wikipedia.

You are the epitome of the modern idiot; one who has access to Wikipedia and some basic reading comprehension, but no true education. You are, in the end, a pleb. You may or may not be dumb; I can’t say. But you don’t know jack.

Lately morons like you have flooded the internet with their drivel. You act like you know what you are talking about, but you don’t.

You just don’t.

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