Fansub Reviewing ‘Round the World

Fansub Reviewing ‘Round the World

This post was written by Dark_Sage. He is Dark_Sage.

Twitter YouTube   


It’s somewhat comforting to know that I’m not the only one suffering the failures of fansubs. [Last updated: May 9th, 2013]

Italian Reviews

federica_n_doglio

http://bracciarubateallagricoltura.wordpress.com/

Active since: Winter 2013

 

giuseppina cenni

http://recensubshq.forumfree.it/?f=8429882

This is actually a forum, which is kind of weird. Puffoblù notes it’s pretty much dead, though.

Active since: Spring 2010 (yes, they predate Whiners.Pro)

 

 

 

Spanish Reviews

angela salas larrazabal

http://unblogmisterioso.blogspot.com/

Active from: ? – Winter 2013

 

angela salas larrazabal 2

http://www.wearetsundere.org/

Active since: Winter 2013

Fun fact: They registered unblogmisterioso.com to link to their site, despite being unaffiliated with UBM. Wish I was there to see that drama.

 

1314753847100

http://ortonazis.wordpress.com/

Active since: Summer 2012

Super duper fun fact: I’m using the same girl for all the Spanish sites because she’s the only Hispanian Strike Witch.

 

 

Thai Reviews

wakamoto tetsuko

http://thsub.wordpress.com/

Active from: Fall 2012 to Fall 2012

Innocenant notes it got a lot of flak for daring to criticize fansubs.

 

 

Indonesian Reviews

kuroe ayaka

http://perengek.wordpress.com/

Active since: Fall 2011

 

nishizawa yoshiko

http://musimbaru.wordpress.com/

Active from: Spring 2012 to Winter 2013

 

 

Czech Reviews

adolfine galland

http://fansub.konata.cz/

Active from: Fall 2012 to Winter 2013

 

 

German Reviews

johanna_wiese

http://nanaone.net/fsreviews/

Active from: Winter 2012 to Fall 2012

(Hi Gebbi.)

 

 

Turkish Reviews

Hanna-Justina.Warja.Rosalind.Sieglinde.Marseille

http://bbs.animetr.eu/arsivler/category/fd

Active from: Spring 2012 to Winter 2013

 

 

 

English Reviews

dominica s gentile

http://8ths.in/

Active from: Fall 2011 to Spring 2012

 

vale

http://notredrevie.ws/

Active since: Spring 2012

 

 

Well, did I miss out on any? I’ll edit ’em in if I did.

210 thoughts on “Fansub Reviewing ‘Round the World”

    • I know. “Active from” with a start date and an end date indicates the site was active for that period of time and is now either dead or on hiatus. “Active since” means the site is still active.

  3. I don’t about other languages, but at least in the “spanish fansubbing world”, there are more than a hundred fansubs. It’s pretty difficult to select which ones to review each season. Just for Shingeki there are like 50 different versions, although most of them suck.

    • 50? That’s quite a lot. What’s the motivation for those people to sub shows 49 other groups are already doing? I can’t imagine that their download counters are anywhere near three-digit (but maybe I’m underestimating the Spanish fansub consumer base).

      • The first ones to release are always the ones who get the most downloads and their download number are actually pretty hih. The problem with spanish fansubs, is that most of them translate from english subs, since there is very little people that actually know Japanese. English on the other hand is a more common language, and for some reason everybody thinks they know english, when they actually don’t.

          • Pre-Crunchyroll, it was pretty common for English groups to translate from Chinese subs. Based on the quality of those releases, I can feel the pain of non-English fansub viewers.

              • Personal experience? Back when I started on the scene (2008), “C->E” was very much a common term (Chinese -> English translation, for those of you not familiar with this cool and hip fansubbing lingo). I suppose I could dig through the animesuki fansub recruitment thread and find you some posts, but that’s a lot of effort. I do recall seeing a lot of “Translator(s) needed! C->E or J->E. No experience required, message me for details.” requests there.

                I know you’ve been subbing for longer than I have, so you may have a better view of what the whole scene was like, but from what I saw, I remember a lot of C->E shit.

                • Sure, there were a lot of those recruit posts, but as far as I know, those group never really took off. Besides… Doremi and Ayako. (And from way before you also had AnimeJunkies). It is also a fact that Anime-Empire subbed Slam Dunk from Chinese, but when the project ended, they moved away from that practice. Doremi did the same, but Ayako I have no idea about.

                  Anyway, my point is that most active groups did translate from Japanese before Crunchyroll came to.

                  • Maybe you were never in groups that had to deal with staff issues, but I was. And C->E was very much a matter of necessity for our survival. We were proud as hell of our C->E TLC, Basaka, in Batsu-Geimu. And I wouldn’t say the Baka-Wolf network was obscure enough to not mention. Pretty sure Rumbel was rocking a C->E when I was doing Fairy Tail with them, and Kesenai definitely was.

                    J->E was more common sure. But if C->E wasn’t that prevalent, then you wouldn’t have had people like Vincent saying “yeah, no C->E TLs, plzthx” http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1909055&postcount=2062

                    Last year, even GotWoot had to get a C->E TL for really obscure kanji. J->E is just too rare a skill for all the demand to be met.

                    • I see. To be honest, I never really paid attention to the “small groups”. Apart from Rumbel and Gotwoot, I haven’t even heard about the ones you mentioned. And from the 30 or so groups I’ve been with, only 1 did chinese to english. I guess I just never really paid attention outside my “circles” and the big groups.

                    • I think what you meant to say, Mr Sage, is that most *speedsub* groups used Ch -> Eng translators. Most of the big-name groups (i.e. ones that lasted more than, say, a season or two) used Jp -> Eng as standard. The only notable exceptions have been mentioned already and I think even Doremi used a Jp-speaking TLC for their post-2006 releases before lad and mace decided to learn jp themselves.

                      The reason speedsub groups used Chinese tls is because the Chinese rips came out very soon after airing (we’re talking about an hour or two, because they “encoded” them in rmvb) and yes, by virtue of there being more Chinese people in the world, it stands to reason there are potentially more “translators”. But adding that extra layer obviously adds more chances to fuck up.

                      Saying it was a common practice isn’t telling the whole story. You have to remember that speedsubbing and quality subbing eventually amalgamated to an extent with the advent of groups like Eclipse, but before that, there was a pretty wide divide. In 2007/2008, if you released an episode before the next one had aired, that was considered speedy :D

                    • I wish I saved a screenshot of Chihiro’s v1 of Zettai Shougeki Platonic Heart 01. They actually re-encoded a raw from a Chinese sub that still had the fansub logo in the corner.

                    • It’s not all that hard actually. I’ve only been around since late 2006/early 2007 and I’ve been in 30 diff groups (if I count joints too, admittedly – though that’s only a handful) that I can remember. Way back when I started, I joined a handful of small groups that lasted less than a season, and I’ve also QC’d for groups on the fly, usually forgetting I’ve done it afterwards :D

                      So yeah, 30 doesn’t seem unreasonable. Factor into it that I’m an editor and sangofe’s a timer (they’re more likely to be groupwhores) and the fact he started several years before me… Yeah, 30 is probably about right.

                    • I think, when I counted once (before i lost all my fansub files), that it was 36 or 38. I’ve been subbing a lot of years, you know.

        • 99.5% of them suck. Out of the 50+ versions there are available, only two are decent. Also, SnK (Attack on Titan) beat a previous record in oversubbing. The previous record was establish by “Another” which have over 30 different versions.

                  • And that’s the sad thing, that it’s not a joke.

                    This was precisely the reason I stopped watching Spanish subtitles back in the day, as not only there is an overwhelmingly number of shit fansub groups, but they’re also full of arrogant and illiterate pricks. It’s as if herkz and brainchild had become one, with skills worse than those of a Hadena staff member. Damn.

                    • brazillian fansubs is the same thing, not so may groups tough.
                      the “best” groups(1~3 groups) don’t have the manpower to sub a lot of shows.
                      the rest sub for money(link shorteners, donations and other retarded ways), and yes it is worth, in a capitalistic way…

            • Not only translation, grammar and spelling, but also encode. Most Spanish groups make 50mb-90mb versions, the people mostly download this kind of versions because they “can’t wait so many time to have the file downloaded, and they want their animu as fast as posibble”. Not mentioning that 80%, if not 90% of Spanish fansubs, encodes in mp4.

      • The worst of all is that those screenshots are from only one website. There are around 10-15 more Shingeki releases that don’t appear there.

  4. There was a Romanian reviewer at a time, but the various groups got angry and – well, destroyed his site. I’m not sure what happened, but it was enough to make the guy say ‘fuck you guys, I’m leaving’.

    Fansubs are srs bsns. Particularly there – rampant ‘you stole my script!!!11!!1’ type drama, hardsubs (so nobody steals their scripts!), 2005-style karaoke and 2003-esque typesetting. You have to register on a forum to download the biggest group’s releases.

    …I’m glad I left that scene.

  5. Forget the screenshot or ‘picture presentation for’ or whatever it is called of other groups, why is notredreviews’ an alienated /product/? >:(

    • >why is notredreviews’ an alienated /product/? >:(

      Oh, 2Coloured, you always make me laugh.

      I had to do something to keep the post from being just a boring old list of websites, so Vale got the short end of the stick on account of his site being nothing but circlejerks and self-reviews (and guess what grades he gives his own translations). Forgive me for not being impressed.

      • But you know that I intentionally did not mean it >:(

        >(and guess what grades he gives his own translations)
        will have to verify this later, perhaps.

      • Okay, Xythar got really mad at me for posting this. Stop the presses, everyone, I was totally wrong about Vale reviewing his own subs.

        See, Vale reviews Futsuu’s subs and gives them glowing accolades. Then Futsuu reviews Vale’s subs and gives them glowing accolades as well. This merely happens because both of them are the most brilliant translators to touch the shores of fansubdom.

        Forgive me for implying any act of impropriety on Vale’s part. I was in the wrong. The site is perfect, go visit and see why even Commie rates it a 5/5.

          • Probably via IRC. When you’re vagrant of “this is our life” tier, shit flows through the network pretty quickly. (Okay, making sure we’re on the same page, that was mostly facetious, not intended to offend.)

        • Clearly abject fear is the only reason why few have complained about the reviews constructively and fewer yet successfully.

          I used to play an MMOG on a rather high level, and since then I’ve felt that it’s rather astounding what envy can do to the way people perceive the world around them and their own place in it. It practically borders on schizophrenia.

          • Some people prefer to neither touch nor yell at poop. Now I might be generalizing members to the whole, but it was the commie people that complained most when Seiji-kun reviewed a show he was working on with another group. This gave notredreviews a strange smell to me, and I’ve declined to comment there since.

          • What you envy?

            Being an actually successful fansubber.
            That’s the entire reason you made this site back in the days of yore and the reason you’ve been keeping up this charade. You’re not wrong much of the time these days (though you were when all this was taking off; practice helps, eh?), but one thing hasn’t changed in all these months.

            You’re still a fucking terrible fansubber.

            • Ooh, this will be fun. Okay, what’s your definition of success? Because I already consider myself the greatest fansubber (and human being) to have ever lived. (I’m sure some better ones were aborted, but let’s forget about them.)

              • If I may chime in…

                A successful fansubber does what he says he will do, on time, without committing any major derps (or at least fixing them if he does) or allowing himself to get sidetracked by pointless online mudslinging, because he enjoys the anime he works on and the sense of satisfaction he gets from sharing it with others.

                (Note that by this definition, few if any of the most prolific fansubbers are actually “successful.”)

                • I don’t think any fansubber past or present has ever lived up to being successful if that’s the definition of it :o

            • I downloaded the last thing you released, not being a particularly religious follower of your works, and hence not vividly remembering your failures.

              http://i.imgur.com/bXzT6CN.png

              This is the second sentence of Hyoubu 07.
              The second sentence.
              “air raided”.

              Incidentally, the third line is this:

              http://i.imgur.com/yxJ1jmk.png

              “beyond the ocean”.

              Yeah. So.
              Whatever skills or talents you may or may not have, you are a voice from the peanut gallery.

              • Both lines are fine. Living in Germany for too long must have ruined your English skills. Or perhaps you never had them in the first place.

                Not that I’d expect much from a fansubber of your -ahem- prestige. Try again, and this time answer the question. How do you define fansubber success?

                • Well, I can’t say that it’s wrong per se (it probably works in American more than British) but wouldn’t this be a much better edit:

                  “No one could even imagine the possibility of an air raid hitting the mainland.”

                  Maybe “hitting” isn’t the best verb to slot in there, but I think it’s a much better sentence structure.

              • They’re not fine.

                We say ‘overseas’ not ‘beyond the ocean’. Who fucking says that?

                And “air raid” is only a noun.

                I’m not going to debate this, though, because cracking open the shell of false vanity you’re hiding in is not worth my time. I’m not your therapist.

                Instead of reading my own long and dreary exposition on the subject, why don’t you try to tell me in what sense you have successfully fansubbed?

                All I can see when I look at your site is someone who convinces himself his competence knows few bounds, and is distraught somewhere deep down that many others succeed where he does not.

                • “the possibility of the mainland being the recipient of an air raid” vs “the possibility of the mainland being air raided.” Guess which one the average human would say.

                  And I could have said “over the ocean” or “over the sea” or “oversea”, yes. But I find more poetry with my line. “Beyond” is far more descriptive than “over”.

                  You’re essentially complaining my subs aren’t dictionary enough. Try harder, please. Shouldn’t be that difficult, as I’m sure I legitimately screwed up a few times. After all, even the gods make mistakes.

                  As for how to measure my success… Well, I’ve always looked up to Dark_Sage, so perhaps we can use Dark_Sageness as a measure of success. We can, right? Excellent. In which case… Oh my, are these calculations correct? I appear to be a 100% match. I’ve done it! By definition, I am literally the most successful fansubber to have ever lived. Huzzah!

                • Although you’re correct about people using ‘overseas’, you’re incorrect about the other line. D_S is using ‘air’ as an adjective, and
                  this is not debatable whatsoever.

                  “All I can see when I look at your site is someone who convinces himself his competence knows few bounds, and is distraught somewhere deep down that many others succeed where he does not.”

                  This line here should not have a comma.

                  • Disregarding adjectives being unable to modify verbs, “air” being a noun modifier in that case doesn’t make it an adjective.

                    “Air raid” is a compound noun and, as such, is a set phrase. You cannot change one of the word’s class and expect it to remain grammatical— one can’t well say “I was high schooled there”, yeah? That said, I can see it being used informally so I don’t have much of a problem with it if used in that context.

                • These two lines are literalfag translations by whoever you got the script from. I’m quite certain you didn’t edit them, and so now they are as one may find them here. You’re just going to come up with more retarded excuses, so whatever. But you’re still wrong. That you’re denying the fundamental weirdness of these two lines is in itself proof that I am right, and that you’re desperately trying to perpetuate this joke.

                  In any other release, you would have rightly complained about this, because you are not entirely without sense. In your own releases it stays. Not because you didn’t care or because you’re categorically incapable of correcting such a line, but rather because you’re simply a terrible fansubber.

                  In the end, you’re only trying to drag everyone down to your level with these reviews.

                  And now you’re trying to give this discussion an absurd spin to deflect from your failings. All right. Nil novum sub sole.

                  • Don’t mad, please. The lines are fine and I don’t get why you’re so hung up on them. Find something that’s actually wrong and you’ll have made whatever point you want to make.

                    And you still haven’t told me by what metric I’m a failure. Instead, you asked me for what I consider success to be. I answered honestly, which resulted in you having a mental meltdown, it appears. I’ll take that as tacit admission that my godly fansub skills are beyond boundaries that can be set by mortal men. It’s okay, no more tears. Just bask in my brilliance and hope the tan lasts forever.

                    • Success criteria: Not sucking

                      Dark_Sage: Known to suck

                      Success denied!

                      And with that, I bid you all adieu.



                  • Sure took you a while to come up with further suitable evasions, didn’t it? Oh, I bet you were making coffee or something.

                    I looked through your script and I assure you that there is a colorful multitude of other highly dubious lines. But why bother? You’re just going to be in denial. If you had any desire to discuss this seriously, I’d have known by now.

                    You’re a failure because your scripts are a failure, the teams you shepherd are regularly a failure, you’re fucking slow and you never finish anything. A failure.

                    Must be frustrating to feel such a vast gap between what one is convinced one can do (not wholly without basis) and what eventually finds its way to the general public.

                    I have a different question. This is more out of curiosity, so feel free not to answer me. What is it you do in life? Like, with your life?

                    • Hey, his scripts for Tamako Market were great. Implying he did edit it for GotWoot. At least I thought he did. I’ll be quiet now. Sorry.

                    • You’re really gonna slag me for not refreshing my comments page desperately enough to allow for an instant reply to your pissing and moaning? Really, dude?

                      Did it ever occur to you that I might be at my job right now?

                      I’m not getting paid to babysit your jealousy, so forgive me for the delayed response. As for your claims of fansubber ineptitude, I shall ask for citations. Please be thorough and reference releases, lines, and cyber-sex logs from the 20-odd groups that I’ve been in. 12-point font, Times New Roman. I’ve always wanted to have someone write me a biography.

                    • I guess you may have actually been making coffee for your boss.

                      Whatever. I thank you for your answer.

                      So, looking back on this little conversation, that was the first time you said something of value.

                      Isn’t this kind… telling?

                    • > Isn’t this kind… telling?

                      Assuming you meant “kind of telling,” O Perfect One, I find it “kind of telling” that you felt the need to engage with D_S in a protracted slagging match which *you initiated*. On his site.

                      Further assuming that the point of your actions was to measure your e-penis as being longer than his, I’d say you were hoisted by your own petard the moment you began the enterprise, wouldn’t you? Hmmm?

                      M’kay. Alrighty then. Buh-bye.

                    • Look at all these admirers of yours, crawling out of the woodworks. Why do you think they come here and read your reviews? In you they see what they’d like to be. A nerd who seemingly wins a discussion.

                      So, management.

                      Any idea why your fansub projects are usually stillborn? Like, from a management perspective?

                    • Dunno ’bout you but I come here for humorous write ups on the thoroughly documented failures of translational linguistics as applied to foreign animation and the copious amounts of posterior pain that so often accompanies such articles.

                      Dark_Sage satisfies the former, individuals such as yourself (fnord) the later. I do so enjoy the spectacle.

                    • [borrowingfromrobertantonwilson couldn’t
                      help itself, and so continued to whine]:

                      > Look at all these admirers of yours,
                      > crawling out of the woodworks.

                      M’kay so, first of all, I assume you meant “woodwork,” singular, since “woodworks” is a malaprop here. (Hint: if you’re going to criticise a Critic, learn to use the language properly first.) Secondly, though, I want to emphasise that I don’t have to be an “admirer” of Dark_Sage in order to recognise *you* for a prattling twat, now do I? And I don’t have to psychoanalyse *his* Ego (which, I am quite certain, he would be the first to admit periodically tends to block his view of the world) in order to comment upon _your_ motivations [your compulsive, obsessive, motivations] in feeling you just HAVE to keep on havering here.

                      > Why do you think they come here
                      > and read your reviews?

                      Answer: Well, it’s bloody well *NOT* to read your scathing criticisms of them, I would wager!

                      > In you they see what they’d like to be.

                      Erm, No.

                      > A nerd who seemingly wins a discussion.

                      (You mean, in the way I’ve just won this one, do you?)

                      > So, management.

                      Grapefruit.

                      [Or: “Fudgickles,” if you prefer – I can play the ‘shouting-out-random-words’ game as well as anybody!]

                      Well, it’s been Real having this chat with you. Say, if you liked ‘Illuminatus!’ so much that you named your avatar after an ontological trick detailed in it, why don’t you read ‘Stranger In A Strange Land’; then you can call yourself ‘Grok’ on various web fora and sound real smart to yourself, eh? ;o)

                    • Kids, kids… It’s just anime. If you want to test your English skills so much go use it to trick little boys into your home.

        • Most recently on NotCommieRevie.ws, vale’s SnK script DID get a lower review than CommiEotens from Futsuu, by a slight margin. A whole other kind of trolling or Fox News’ Fair and Balanced in action? We’ll never know.

        • Just you wait, Vale. One of these days I’ll have a review site of my own. And it’ll be cooler than yours and there’ll be tits and bad jokes and you won’t be a part of it! Mark my words!

  8. If you include notred reviews, you should probably include nyaatorrents as a review site. After all, it has the impartiality.

  9. I remember seeing a French websites website, once. But I wonder why there aren’t many English fan-sub reviewing sites. You must hate doing it D_S. Then again, most people focus solely on the anime and don’t care about the sub that comes along with it. I suppose we are the minority.

  11. >Looked at the german review site
    >Am speakin’ fairly good german
    >newest “A-” review
    >Lookin’ at stiffest lines ever, which’re supposed to be spoken by highschool students
    >A-
    >mfw

    I hate german fansubbers. Can neither form correct lines nor flow. And then there’s the “german D_S” gradin’ them A-. Oh well.

      • Oh you. :> Still, if the “standard” in german fansubbing is low, grade it as bad as it actually is. You could still give it a C- and say “well, it sucks, but it’s your best call if you’re too dumb to understand english”.

        But seriously, after reading some of those lines I understand the pain you must go through correctin’ the lines in your reviews. It’s a miracle you didn’t hang yourself by now.

        • I’ve never seen a good or even acceptable release in german and the drama in that scene is worse. The people in these groups are mostly cosplaying landwhales without jobs with english and german skills inferior to mine. I just don’t get why people would dl hardsubbed rainbow kara avi releases in 2013. Maybe they are hardcore masochists…I’ll go and continue being a misanthropic dolphin now. Schönen Abend noch.

    • >reading A- fansub review
      >4 screenshots with lines I’ve pointed out as shit
      >whole sub is shit

      I think you’re missing the point of fansub reviews.

      Also:
      >Chuu2koi
      >autism characters should speak like normal highschool students

      You’re also missing the point of autism.

      • Even the typesetting translations are stiff. “Komm mich später treffen”. This line was by the autism-girl I think. Who the fuck says “Komm mich später treffen”?! It’s either “Triff mich später” or if you want it more formal-like to fit their autism “Treffe mich später”. Or maybe even more autism-like “Treffe mich später an diesem Ort: Grab der Blätter”. However, no point discussing either the quality of the fansubs itself or your reviews, which I think aren’t bad or anything. I just think you could grade like everything down by two grades and nobody could complain. Your corrections are legit and everything and I see why you’d give high grades to something that doesn’t totally screw up (rest of subs F or Troll). Let’s spam D_S’s site about german fansubbing! He must be so happy!

        • You’re absolutely right about that one sign translation, and it doesn’t even sound stiff, it simply sounds retarded, even for Rika standards. But that doesn’t change the fact that the main script contained a lot of excellent lines – granted I didn’t show any of them in the review, which I should maybe change for future reviews.

          You just can’t rate German fansubs by English standards – four moderate and three minor mistakes are imo still worth an A, if the rest of the script flows like a charm. German is a lot more complex than English, with 9001 possibilities to phrase sentences in completely different ways, if you’re eloquent enough. Not to mention the complex grammar, punctuation and orthography rules – as a native German speaker you should be familiar with the fact that even those people with superior German language skills (like me, dohoho) trip over some rules every now and then.

          Let’s spam D_S’s site about german fansubbing! He must be so happy!

          I don’t exactly see the problem here, as this article is about foreign language reviews. But if you want to go into further detail, we should continue our discussion over at my place.

          • I didn’t even watch the release and I do not plan to, you may be able to guess why. Without trying to brag or anything, I guess I’d count into your “superior German language skills”-group, too, simply ’cause: It’s literally my job to be in this group.

            If the rest of the script did flow like a charm, and had actually speakable or characterized German. It didn’t show in your review, so I second your idea in pointing out good/excellent phrasing.

            However, I’m extremely irritable when it comes to German subs. When I read the bad lines or even just the typesetting in your post, an overly aggressive nazi-announcer spoke ’em in my head~ It so often feels like “hnnnng let’s let those little brats talk like they couldn’t be more awkward”. The average grades in your reviews speak for state German subs are in.

            “we should continue our discussion over at my place.” Oh… I see you more like a friend, sorry.

    • “I hate german fansubbers. Can neither form correct lines nor flow.”

      Maybe you just suck at German and you’re not able to judge this. You’re a little bit overconfident, if you think you could judge the quality of a German fansub made by native Germans in matter of line flow, as a “fairly good” German speaker.

        • It does. Being a native doesn’t mean you’re good at spelling and grammar, but you do talk German everyday and so you know what sounds right.

          Even your criticism sounds like futile ranting, to me.

          ““Komm mich später treffen”. This line was by the autism-girl I think. Who the fuck says “Komm mich später treffen”?!”

          Apart from a lot of people I know, who come from different regions of Germany, I do. I even read this phrasing in some books. It may be a matter of taste and you don’t have to like it, but if a lot of people don’t have objections you can’t talk about nobody speaking like that.

          “It’s either “Triff mich später” or if you want it more formal-like to fit their autism “Treffe mich später”.”

          Personally, I think you suggestions aren’t any good and sound even stiffer. Behind every line there are a lot of thoughts, they are not written arbitrarily, but of course you can’t fit everybody’s taste. “Treffe mich später” is grammatically wrong, not more formal-like. She’s using imperative second person singular, so only „triff” is allowed. „Treffe mich später” could just be a shortened version of “Ich treffe mich später”, which is out of place here.

          • “Treffe mich später” was more intended as something like “Treffet mich später” as in medieval stuff. And I don’t see my lines stiffer than their’s, it’s the contrary, obviously.

            Futile ranting? I see your’s as futile defending. So we’re even, right? Who cares anyway, it’s the internet.

            And ye, native means you’re good at talking the language? Oh boy, I know quite some examples who’d prove that wrong.

            I have neither read nor heard the line “Komm mich später treffen” ever. Gebbi said it sounds retarded – I say it sounds stiff. It’s not wrong in any way. The style’s just off. Subs are always about personal opinions, especially when it’s about style and flow.

            I somehow get the feeling you’re quite butt-hurt, do you belong to the group, by any chance? Either way, watch it and be happy, I won’t and am happy.

            • I wouldn’t state that behind every line there are a lot ouf thoughts and that they are not written arbitrarily, if I weren’t involved in this project. I’m the leader of the reviewed group and I do most of the work there. For Chuunibyou I was in charge of edit and typeset. And of course I feel like I have to oppose if I have to read criticism based on unfounded (imo) arguments. Because your text looks like you just want to rant about German subs, because you want to demonize all of them.

              I heard the phrase “Komm mich *VERB* …” quite often and I think it’s also very similiar to “Komm mich mal besuchen”, which should be common. And Gebbi is no authoritative standard, so even If he think’s the line sounds retarded (and I doubt that, because it didn’t sound stiff enough for him to comment it in his review) that doesn’t have to mean anything. Currently I’m in charge of editing Gebbi’s translation for Railgun S and I also think some lines are stiff and not fitting, but in these cases we discuss aforesaid lines and change them if necessary, but still I wouldn’t say the lines were bad, because this kind of criticism is very subjective.

              I can’t agree with you that this line or even the whole sub sound stiff, but in one regard I can: I didn’t expect to get graded with something better than 2+ if Gebbi were up to review episode 1, 2 or 3. I was only really content with the sub after Episode 5, imo everything after episode 4 would have deserved the A/A-, but not episode 3.

              “And ye, native means you’re good at talking the language? Oh boy, I know quite some examples who’d prove that wrong.”

              Of course there are always some bad apples, but you can’t generally say this were to be prevailing.

              • “Komm mich mal besuchen” is quite common. Doesn’t mean “Komm mich später treffen” becomes common because of it. 8 results says google to that. Nothing really absolute, but a hint.

                “Of course there are always some bad apples, but you can’t generally say this were to be prevailing.” To quote myself: “Ye, I am a native~ Bein’ a native doesn’t mean you’re good at speakin’ the language, though.” Meaning: Just ’cause I’m a native doesn’t mean I’m good, just ’cause I’m a native doesn’t mean I’m bad. I didn’t say anything about every German being too dumb to speak German. Just ’cause you’re a German doesn’t mean you can put flow and character into a script, though. Just because lines are right, doesn’t mean they fit.

                “I’m the leader of the reviewed group and I do most of the work there. For Chuunibyou I was in charge of edit and typeset.”

                No use in arguing with you then, right? You did form those lines, whom I don’t agree with. How’s your point any differentiated? Someone gives you a A-, and here the no-name comes with his “unfounded arguments”.

                Your typesetting was sweet, btw. I would’ve put the “Präsentation” (wasn’t it?) upside down, though. Prä-sen-ta… looks dumb.

                • Just realized these 8 results are acutally from crymore. Haha. Maybe my google’s fucked, try it yourself, don’t forget to write it like this: “Komm mich später treffen”.

              • You’re looking for “Komm später mal vorbei,” or “Lass uns später mal treffen.”
                “Komm mich später treffen,” is very wrong. There may be some dialects where it’s being used, but dialectal speech has to be used for effect, which is not what you’re arguing here.
                Instead you base your argument on affirming a consequent and appealing to authority (if you having read it in unspecified books is correct and not something misremembered), both of which are very bad arguments.

                Anyway, Hochdeutsch exists for a reason, you know?

                • My favourite editor has spoken. I’m not quite sure if he’s agreeing or disagreeing with me, though. My heart says agreeing.

                • Oh just saw that it’s a reply to the German editor. I’m so happy, corocoro. And here I thought I’m all alone in my stubbornness.

                • And since I realized I was mostly talking about your fallacies:

                  1. kommen: sich auf ein Ziel hin bewegen [und dorthin gelangen]; anlangen, eintreffen

                  You don’t specify (whether implicitly or explicitly) where to.

                  2. treffen: mit jemandem ein Treffen haben, aufgrund einer Verabredung zusammenkommen

                  There’s always at least two people involved in a meeting. If you use “treffen” with only one active person, the meaning changes to:

                  (von einem Geschoss, einem Schuss, Schlag o. Ä.) jemanden, etwas erreichen und mit mehr oder weniger großer Wucht berühren [und dabei verletzen, beschädigen]

                  And unless there’s more guns involved in that anime than I thought, that just won’t work (and even then the grammar would still be wrong).

                  Source: http://www.duden.de

                  • If you use “treffen” with only one active person

                    But that’s also the case when you say “Triff mich”, which is legitimate common speech. I tried that argument too when discussing it with Kyu a few minutes ago, but it doesn’t work. I’d say, from the grammatical point of view it’s okay, it just sounds off and uncommon to me.

                    Also: Seems like crymore.net has been taken over by German grammar nazis. What have you done, D_S?!

                • I need an edit-function… anyway, I have to disagree a actually, your alternatives don’t work here. The whole thing’s about a note and it’s from this autistic girl with the eyepatch. Your given alternatives are spoken German. Doesn’t rly matter to your point imo, though.

                • @cautr

                  “No use in arguing with you then, right? You did form those lines, whom I don’t agree with.”

                  And why should this be a reason you couldn’t argue with me about this?

                  First, I didn’t form these lines, I only changed a few of them if I thought they weren’t fitting. But “unusual” and “not fitting” or “stiff” are two very different animals, so I won’t change everything, what’s unusual. Also, I didn’t translate the script. If I’ve done the translation, the script would look different, but I think our translator did a good job and improved his skills very good, even if I didn’t except a better grade than 2+.

                  Second, even If these lines were formed by me, this would make me the best partner you could discuss this matter with, not the contrary.

                  But you’re right, it’s no use arguing with me any longer, because we both voiced our arguments and you don’t want to accept this line by no means and I won’t accecpt a subjective “I don’t like it” as argument.

                  I wouldn’t even discuss this matter, if you were not to link one single line to the ability of me and my group to form lines and create a line flow. And if you want to make it sound more natural, all of your (yours and coro’s) aren’t any good.

                  If I were forced to change this line back there, I would have wrote “Wir treffen uns später am Grab der Blätter.” or “Wir treffen uns später. Ort: Grab der Blätter” or “Treffen wir uns später [mal] am Grab der Blätter.” Of course, here it matters how loosely you want to translate this line, but a “Triff mich später.” would be totally stiff in my opinion.

                  @corocoro

                  > Hochdeutsch
                  > dialogues between high school studens

                  Really?

                  “Lass uns später mal treffen.”

                  Sorry, but that’s the worst suggestion for this line I read here. And you want me to believe “Komm mich später treffen” is very wrong.

                  “Komm später mal vorbei.”

                  If you wanted to suggest this as better line than “Komm mich später treffen”, I have to tell you, that this would be more than unfitting for this situation.

                  “There may be some dialects where it’s being used”

                  Yes, of course, and that’s the reason more than ten people were familiar with this phrase and didn’t have any objections. And like I said: These people come from different regions of Germany.

                  And sorry, but I don’t even know, who I’m talking to. Are you a native English speaker who learned German? Are you a native German? Depending on this you’re arguments would have a totally different ponderosity.

                  • ““Wir treffen uns später am Grab der Blätter.” or “Wir treffen uns später. Ort: Grab der Blätter” or “Treffen wir uns später [mal] am Grab der Blätter.””

                    It’s from an autistic girl, dude. My suggestions were just blown out, not well-thought or even perfect in any manner.

                    Reason why I can’t argue about this with you: You’re as biased as one can be as the editor and even leader? Plus, it’s a question of style. Style is always subjective. Of course my opinion is subjective. Opinions are subjective.

                    Corocoro is the German guy at Hiryuu. He’s in favor of editing, normally. Judging people’s arguments by their place of birth… oh, whatever.

                    Seeing how butt-hurt you are, you must base quite a bunch of self-confidence on your sub’s quality. You got a nice grade, isn’t that great? Just let this little “subjective” anon have his silly oppinion about the stiffness.

                    • “Corocoro is the German guy at Hiryuu. He’s in favor of editing, normally. Judging people’s arguments by their place of birth… oh, whatever.”

                      Come on, if you say it that way, it just sound’s wrong. I just wanted to say, that his arguments about the German language in matter of line flow would have a totally different ponderosity if he is a native German or if he lives in Germany. I doubt a native English, who never lived in Germany has the experience to really judge something like this. I think you know what I meant.

                      “Plus, it’s a question of style. Style is always subjective. Of course my opinion is subjective. Opinions are subjective.”

                      And that’s exactly the reason why I hate discussions about something like this. Neither me nor you are are on solid ground and nobdoy can “win” this discussion.
                      I dont’ even want to say our line here was the optimal choice and afterwards I probably would pick one of my other versions, now. And I don’t want to make it look like I would think I were perfect. Let us assume that this line is really not right, which I simply doubt because I know it like this and noone had objections. But just let’s assume this. Then we would have made a slight mistake and we’re done with it. I just started to discusss with you because I have the impression you want to make it look like we’re totally stupid because of a few screenshot of screenshots of lines pointed out as shit and another line which doesn’t fit your taste.

                      But I think it should be reasonable why I have the feeling like I have to oppose, if you try to denounce our work. Call it “butt-hurt” if you like, but I can’t ignore this. Even if it’s only on the internet, why shouldn’t I ignore criticism?

                    • Guess you mean “why should[…]”. ‘Cause as you mentioned above: it’s pointless.

                      If I would watch the whole release, I might find more lines which offend my own understanding of script-flow. But I simply don’t watch anime with German subs – for reasons. The rest of the script might be flawless, I just built my opinion off the few screens (not necessarily the wrong lines, which were pointed out) that were given. I didn’t like these, thus it confirmed my own opinion about German subs – especially as it was rated the best by far.

                  • I’m a native German; not like this changes the validity of any of my arguments. But hey, at least I actually have some.

                    Anyway, I’m not familiar with the scene, so I took a guess what you were trying to say with your malformed line.

                    >> Hochdeutsch
                    >> dialogues between high school studens

                    Maybe I should’ve specified more – if your character is not speaking slang consistently, he/she should speak Hochdeutsch. And yes, you should use it with normal high school students. Words and phrases used predominantly by young people can still be part of Hochdeutsch, you know?

                    > Yes, of course, and that’s the reason more than ten people were familiar with this phrase and didn’t have any objections. And like I said: These people come from different regions of Germany.

                    And yet not one can come up with an actual argument in favor of it?
                    As if I needed any more reason to avoid the German fansub scene.

                    TL;DR: Regardless of who is right (hint: not you), you failed to bring forth a single, valid arguments and as such this has become a waste of my time.

                    • @cautr

                      Yes, flame a little bit more after I tried to put an end to this pointless debate. You build your opinion with alsmost nothing more than screenshots of mistakes and you generally are very biased. You didn’t even watch the release and If you were to watch it I’m sure you wouldn’t go away from your negative opinion anyway. Are you really so keen on fighting about something you don’t even care about?

                      @corocoro

                      Of course high school students also speak Hochdeutsch, but slang is used very often, too, but hey, you just want to understand me wrong, so just continue ranting about the bad, bad German subs alone.

                      If you really think you mentioned any valid arguments you’re just as self-assertive as you may think I am. I don’t know why you even tried to intrude this discussion, you clearly just WANT to hate German subs, so it’s totally pointless to try and prove you wrong.

                    • Huh? Flame? Sorry, but I ain’t even mad. That wasn’t intended to egg you on, so let’s leave it at that.

                    • @corocoro:
                      >implying English fansubs are any better
                      Hint: They’re not. There are just fewer groups, thus fewer bad groups, but also fewer good groups. Therefore picking a good English sub is easier than picking a good German sub, which means less effort, and that’s the only reason people like you are ranting about the German scene (or they hate the German language in general, because hating your mother tongue and consuming only English stuff is so hipster).

                      The next thing you’d probably post here is “but German TLs are often based on English TLs, which always means they’re shit”. Well, if a German TL or editor is eloquent enough, you’ll most likely get a script easily surpassing any English fansub in terms of flow and atmosphere, even if the TL didn’t translate from Japanese and used an English script instead (or at least as a reference). Simply because English is too limited compared to German (inb4 nazi comments lel). There are few groups actually achieving this, but they exist, and the groups getting As (and also the B-tier groups) mostly fall into that category.

                    • I really don’t get this argument other language speakers have with English being a “limited” language. English is an amalgamation of two different language routes (Anglo Saxon/Germanic and Romantic) which means that there are so many more words available to us than what you usually see in fansubs, spoken language, etc.

                      I realise German is king when it comes to making stupidly long nouns, but when it comes to verbs and descriptive words, we’ve got you beat.

                    • By nouns, I of course mean compound nouns. Like Handchuhschneeballwerfer for example.

                    • The main problem I have with the German fansub scene is that they pretty much never credit who did the original TL – which matters plenty, as in English fansubs you can infer (most of the time) from the script whether the TL actually knows Japanese or is just playing the guessing game. Since a competent English -> German TL/editor will cover up the telltale signs, that inference is no longer possible (well, at least not about the J -> E TL).

                      The second big problem I have is that I prefer to watch blurays and German fansub groups prefer not to touch licensed shows. When I checked in the past, those two preferences were at odds quite a bit.

                      (By the way, I find not touching licensed shows while also not crediting fansub groups to be hypocritical, but that wouldn’t really stop me from watching German fansub releases, as the end-result is more important to me than the morals of the people working on it. It’s just one thing to keep in mind the next time a crusade is started because someone dared touch a licensed show.)

                      Last, but not least, I started watching English fansubs and I know which of the more prolific editors and TLs to avoid and which are doing a good job. So yeah, laziness plays a role too, but if I can get a very good English fansub for little effort, why should I expend more work just to get an equally good product in a different language?

                      So yeah, those are my main reasons for prefering English over German fansub releases – now, if you can debunk the above or give me a good reason to switch languages, I’m certain to listen. But please, for the love of God, avoid generalisms and fallacies. Those are worse than any awkward line could ever be.

                    • @FalseDawn: I’d actually have to agree with Gebbi that the German language allows more freedom and better expression.
                      I don’t agree, however, that this guarantees better scripts – I never encountered a line/script where English was used to its utmost capabilities. It matters little whether you need to use 60% or 50% of a language to get the point across as in both cases there’s ample breathing room.

                    • You shouldn’t make up words to substantiate your argument. But seriously, I didn’t want to start a discussion about which language is more limited. It’s just my personal opinion, and granted, I’m not qualified to talk about flow and atmosphere in English fansubs, as my written English is not anything more than understandable (as far as I can tell).

                    • Your English is fine. If I really analyzed it, I could pull some things out that don’t quite jive right, but I could do the same for anyone (including myself).

                    • Sorry to hammer the point home, but:

                      http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/is-it-true-that-english-has-the-most-words-of-any-language

                      I fail to see how German could be more expressive and allow more freedom when English has a wealth of words to choose from. And is that really a surprise? I’d imagine a major reason for English becoming the global language is because of its relatively small amount of commonly-used words, while having much larger scope to cover most eventualities.

                      Feel free to counter-argue that, though – it is a viewpoint I see a lot among non-English speakers (non-native, I mean), so I’m intrigued to know where this misconception arises from.

                    • (the above comment was addressed to FalseDawn btw)

                      @corocoro:

                      but if I can get a very good English fansub for little effort, why should I expend more work just to get an equally good product in a different language?

                      To be honest, I’m doing the exact same thing, so my previous comment can be taken as some kind of self-criticism. Ever since I started writing fansub reviews, I often thought to myself: “Those lines are actually pretty neat, you should watch more German fansubs other than your own.” But oh well, I usually still resort to English subs. Goddamn habits.

                    • Feel free to counter-argue that

                      You counter-argued it yourself.

                      I’d imagine a major reason for English becoming the global language is because of its relatively small amount of commonly-used words

                      You primarily use common speech in most anime, so your vocabulary is limited in many cases.

                    • It’s estimated that German has around half a million lexemes and English has around six-hundred thousand. So you got us beat there.
                      As for average vocabulary – the numbers I found where for lexemes in German and words in English, so I can’t actually tell.
                      Where German trumps English is grammar. It’s more finely nuanced, which in turn allows to express ideas clearer (or less clear, if so intended). You can more freely shift the focus of the sentence while maintaining a well-sounding structure and so on.

                    • About the “freedom” thing: English is, to some extent, an isolating language, while German is a synthetic language. And compound nouns are not really a big deal: No one would ever use the word “Handschuhschneeballwerfer”, what is that?! Of course, there are very long compound nouns, but they’re only used in law and such.

                    • You aren’t limited by common words though, despite how much flak you may get for branching out in the language in fansubs :D

                      That’s not really a point against English though. Our grammar isn’t as complex because it doesn’t need to be – if there’s a situation that requires greater clarity or the need to be vague (okay, compared with Japanese, English is nowhere near as forgiving when it comes to ambiguity/vagueness), we usually have words that will express that. Though, as I’ve already stressed, English uses a small subset of common words in everyday life.

                      But isn’t that the same in any language? How often do people mess with grammar to get their point across in German? How many people even know how to use the subjunctive tense correctly in French? I think it’s splitting hairs, to an extent, but I think your emphasis on the language point should be about the users/conveyors of the language rather than the language itself.

                      tl;dr hate on the English speakers who can’t get their points across, not the English language which is more than equipped to do so :D

                    • @Aru

                      I’m led to believe it means “Someone wearing gloves who throws a snowball.” Make of that what you will.

                      And what do you mean by synthetic and isolating? English is not an isolated language at all – we steal words from all over the place. For example, we’ve taken German words such as Schadenfreude and Zeitgeist because we had no proper equivalent. Isn’t that the definition of synthesis?

                    • Plural of “Schneeball” would be “Schneebälle”.
                      And no, that word (“Handschuhschneeballwerfer”) doesn’t exist. It’s the exact equivalent to “glovesnowballthrower”. Would you ever say that?

                      (I could only name a few compound nouns consisting of more than two nouns right away. I can assure you, that it’s just a rumor like that old “every spoken German sentence sounds like Hitler screaming angry words” rumor.)

                    • sup, just passing by and figured i could let you guys in on a teeny-weeny himitsu: finnish best language ever.

                    • @FalseDawn
                      To put it simply,in isolating languages, the word order is very important.
                      English: “The bear eats the fish”
                      German: “Der Bär isst den Fisch”
                      Now swap the words:
                      “The fish eats the bear”
                      “Den Fisch isst der Bär”
                      In German, it’s still the bear who’s eating the fish, in English, it’s not. That’s a very basic example, though. If you want to now more on that topic, google it.

                    • I fail to see the relevance, Aru…

                      In English, you could easily throw a few little words at it and change it to make sense:

                      “The fish is eaten by the bear.”

                      This is why we have all these little words for clarification and direction. It makes it really easy to spot non-native editors on fansub scripts too, because the little qualifying words are the first things they get wrong :)

                    • I speak a number of languages, German and English among them, and I don’t think any language is able to express less than any other language as long as it has had sufficient contact with the world and doesn’t lack modern concepts. Arguing that a language is objectively more capable of expressing nuances is like saying that the people speaking the language are able to express finer nuances and in turn that they perceive finer nuances.

                      This is an extremely controversial hypothesis.

                    • That’s something else! :P You can easily put the German sentence in its passive too: “Der Fisch wird vom Bär gegessen.” But never mind. I was just trying to say that German’s less strict about its syntax.

  13. There must have been more fansub review sites than that. I’m hard pressed to think of any, but I’m sure there were some, now defunct…

  18. http://fansub.konata.cz/

    A Czech site, although it died quite soon. They don’t nearly find all the mistakes and know very little about typesetting, but hey, at least something.

    The state of the scene is quite similar to the Romanian one. I remember one hilarious time when a group used fonts from the English source release; of course, they didn’t have all the fancy glyphs needed for Czech. When people complained, the group claimed it was their own fault for not having the right localization of the font installed.
    Well, obviously that’s not a problem for many releases which are SRT-only.

  22. Dark_Sage, here is another website for the Spanish scene – http://ortonazis.wordpress.com/ –

    This website is a bit different from UBM or WAT because they only care about the main script (dialogue). They don’t review encode or TSing nor give a grade to anyone. The idea for its creation is basically the following:

    “To provide an educative and informative website for Spanish Fansubbers, to reduce those bad subtitles from fansubs translating in Spanish, and to gather all editors who volunteer in fansubs to support those who are new to the scene”

    The goal is creating a “support center” for those who need help and try to eradicate the so many failsubs this scene has.

  23. sadly none of the fansubbers out there are even Close to be considered semi-good!
    was there ever any successful group?

    Anime fans search to point at failure groups & support the good groups even though good groups can’t give 100% correct translation!

    maybe because of the different general understanding between language or the limits for express But “there will never be an Existence of perfect fansub group!”
    & if there is some people who’s able to do it, they will not bother to do that job xD

  26. On a side-note: I wonder why the TLs are so mad at D_S, when he’s criticizing the editors. Did the editors then rage at 8thsin’s place?

  27. bracciarubateallagricoltura is fantastic! It’s like crymore, except that most Italian groups are Hadena-level XD

  31. Hi, I just found this and thought I’d post a clarification about the German site you listed here.
    First off, it’s not a “review” site, nor was it ever meant to be. 75% of the reviews are just braindead trolling with the sole intention to either slander other groups undeservedly (most times, at least), with Gebbi desperately trying to be funny, but failing miserably every time, or circlejerking with other groups. The other 25% are so-called “Guest reviews”, written by Gebbi himself, where he’s praising his own groups using some pseudonym (usually “Codo III”).

    As such, it has nothing to do with an actual review site, and nothing found there should be taken even remotely seriously, neither the bad nor the good reviews.
    Gebbi being probably the biggest troll in the German fansub scene doesn’t help matters either.
    As such, if you’re extremely bored, and reading through those mindless ramblings of a pathetic troll desperately trying to be funny doesn’t insult your intelligence, you can take a look.
    If however you want to get even the slightest clue about whether a group’s sub is good or bad, then stay the hell away.

    Anyway, people weren’t as stupid as Gebbi had hoped, and when he eventually found out that no one was taking him seriously anymore (at least no one with even the tiniest bit of sense in his head), he gave up on his troll reviews, and the “review” site has been dead ever since.

  32. How about some russian guys?
    http://shiftsubs.ru/?cat=14 – they call it ShitSubBusters (and for a reason, lol).
    IIRC they start doing reviews in the 2011 or something, but the old site is dead and i can’t actually recollect a shit bouta thing either, unfortunately.
    In the spare time from doing some good reviews they fansub things, but oh who cares.

Leave a Comment