Fansub Review: [gg] Tokyo Ravens (Episode 03)

F-Tier, Fansub Review — By on November 11, 2013 11:35 pm

This post was written by Dark_Sage. He is Dark_Sage.

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(Edit: Due to various events, this is no longer a “review” but an article. Consider it non-canon.)

gg: forging the path to fansub irrelevancy one poorly laid shitbrick at a time.

[gg]_Tokyo_Ravens_-_03_[1C0B8231].mkv_snapshot_20.05_[2013.11.11_22.23.46] [gg]_Tokyo_Ravens_-_03_[1C0B8231].mkv_snapshot_23.12_[2013.11.11_22.22.36] [gg]_Tokyo_Ravens_-_03_[1C0B8231].mkv_snapshot_22.33_[2013.11.11_22.21.51] [gg]_Tokyo_Ravens_-_03_[1C0B8231].mkv_snapshot_20.07_[2013.11.11_22.23.51]

Par for the course for a Futsuu translation DxS edit. No wonder people skip fansubs whenever they can.

(Edit: Turns out Futsuu has some decent translations I’ve reviewed. We’ll blame DxS for this one.)

 

Rating: Trollsubs get an F.

Cry if you want, but I won’t drag my standards through the same semen-covered dirt these fansubbers’ mothers did.

Grade:
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354 Comments

Dao says:

Nothing matters but first comment, rekt.

Dark_Sage says:

Thread victory is yours.

Solaristics says:

( ¬‿¬). “Grade: F” Saw that coming from a mile away.

Nigra says:

Congratulations! Your Dark_Sage evolved into Kristen!

Dark_Sage says:

If you try hard enough, I’m sure this will become a thing.

Good luck, you.

Jii-san says:

So out of curiosity, how would you have rendered ‘bakatora’?

duplex says:

Harutard.

TouToTheHouYo says:

I can dig it.

Pelfmiester says:

I think Harutard probably was the best option for his. Hurrtora is horrible though. I think D_S should have came up with a couple more trolling examples though, because one shitty translation doesn’t equal troll.

Dark_Sage says:

I wasn’t actually planning to review this release. I was just watching to catch up on this season before starting up my normal reviews again and was having a merry old time until I got bombarded by “Hurrtora” four times at the end of the episode and decided that was enough.

I’m not going to waste my time on a group that’s trying harder to be funny than a reddit comment thread.

Pelfmiester says:

I’ve heard other people complaining about their trolling and such though, so I can’t really blame you. Don’t know myself though since I only compared a minute of theirs and Anime-Koi’s releases before going with Anime-Koi. And, appearantly, I made that decision without getting to the actual bad parts of GG’s release…

Dark_Sage says:

Out of curiosity, what makes you think this needs to be a pun? I think this is the first release I’ve seen where a group was actually retarded enough to take Japan’s “baka ____” as a sign from the gods to attempt to translate the wording into English.

Darais says:

Do I see you saying that translating an amalgamation of an insult and a name as an amalgamation of an insulting onomatopoeia and the name is LESS CORRECT than ignoring it?

I respected your opinion, and then you pulled this bullshit. You say you’re not biased against groups, but the moment gg provides any excuse for you to go screaming “trollsubs, trollsubs!” you flunk them.

I challenge you, oh godly editor, to come up with a better wording of your own that doesn’t lose the meaning of the friendly insult and doesn’t throw a wrench into the flow. Funimation couldn’t. Anime-Koi couldn’t. gg could and did.

Dark_Sage says:

You’re “challenging” me to append “tora” to an insult? My sage, that’s gonna be way too hard for me. I certainly couldn’t take something like “idiot” and utilize the “t” it ends with to connect to “tora”. Obviously, I couldn’t even just take a random word like “moron” and simply throw “tora” at the end of it. And there is absolutely no way on earth I could ever take a random insult like “jerk” and throw an “a” on the end of it so I have an excuse to add “tora” to the end while retaining enough flow to make it a plausible insult from an English-speaking person. No fucking way.

And you’re definitely right that “hurr” and “haru” are perfectly onomatopoeic. How the fuck could I have been so deaf to the reality of your little world? Taking the “horri” from “horrible” would have been a much worse decision, you’re right.

Way to draw your line in the sand over this. You sure showed me.

Hurr.

Darais says:

My challenge was not “to append ‘tora’ to an insult’ as you say. It was to come up with an alternative word or phrase that works better, be it an insult or something else. I’m sure such a godly editor has plenty of ways to make something fit… nevermind.

“Morontora” – has a shitty ring to it. You’d probably fail them for trolling anyway, had they been the ones to come up with it. Doesn’t work as well as a nickname, which is what Bakatora is.

“Idiotora” – suggested below. Cheating, are we? Again, you’d fail them for trolling anyway.

“*jerka” – now you’re just throwing out stupid ideas to ridicule my point, which is that you’re simply using the pun in “Hurrtora” to scream trollsubs. Oh, and this right here would BE trollsubs.

‘And you’re definitely right that “hurr” and “haru” are perfectly onomatopoeic.’
Way to be unable to read plain English, as that isn’t my argument at all. “Hurr” is an onomatopoeia – a word with no meaning beyond the sound it makes and whatever connotation the sound has. “Hurr” has an intelligence-insulting connotation, so it is an “insulting onomatopoeia,” as I labeled it. The word you’d be looking for to put that particular hole in my argument is “homophonic,” which I didn’t use.

8thsin below has also stated that, from a translation standpoint, you can’t consider “Hurrtora” to be trolling or an error.

Kiraly says:

>“Hurr” has an intelligence-insulting connotation

oh haha

Darais says:

Prove me wrong.

Dark_Sage says:

Are you really that incapable of understanding English?

Darais says:

Are you really that incapable of proving me wrong?

Dark_Sage says:

Kiraly wasn’t questioning your definition, dumbass. Read more.

Darais says:

All contextual clues point to ridicule, not questioning, so you’re right. My bad.

Dark_Sage says:

I had assumed you meant they were homophones since including onomatopoeia as a core of your argument makes absolutely no sense. Apologies for assuming too much of you.

There’s no way to make it “good”, since this isn’t something you should attempt to reflect. Know how many times I’ve seen groups attempt what gg did here? Fucking 0, and for good reason. So my suggestion is don’t even bother. But especially don’t combine “hurr” — an internet insult used to mock people for being or acting retarded — with someone’s name and act like that’s something a 15-year-old girl is gonna come up with.

Darais says:

Did I make it the core of my argument? No? Okay. You used the word incorrectly in your rebuttal and made no attempt to correct my word usage to clarify your own. Therefore, I can only conclude that you’re covering your ass by saying you assumed.

But while we’re assuming, I’ll say that when I first put the challenge out there, I had assumed that you’d be able to come up with a suitable alternative without this much trouble. I have one of my own in mind that I came up with after seeing “Hurrtora” for the first time – I don’t like it, but it’s not wrong and I’ll defend it because I’m bored. I apologize for retaining too much respect for your abilities in my assumptions.

“don’t […] act like that’s something a 15-year-old girl is gonna come up with.”
Not even when “hurr” is an actual sound I’ve heard mentally challenged people make when thinking or when stumped?

Even excluding my personal experience with the mentally challenged, “hurr” as an insult is a thing outside the internet. You’ve certainly heard “er” once or twice, if not repeatedly because it’s extremely common. It’s a hesitation while the brain processes what to do or say. Now, say you want to mock someone for always needing that extra time. What do you do? Exaggerate the noise. “Er” becomes “hurr” and you’ve got yourself an insult.

“There’s no way to make it “good”, since this isn’t something you should attempt to reflect.”
You seem to be unaware of the intent of translation. It is to get the meaning across to those unable to understand the source language. This includes nicknames and insults, of which this is both. The alternatives to gg’s release all “attempt[ed] what gg did here” by localizing the insult.

csb says:

you need help

Dark_Sage says:

>I’ll say that when I first put the challenge out there, I had assumed that you’d be able to come up with a suitable alternative without this much trouble.

I already walked you through the logic. Grab a list of insults and do the legwork if you really want to, but I’m not wasting my time on some nobody’s “challenge” when I’ve already gone over why localizing this is a bad idea.

>You seem to be unaware of the intent of translation. It is to get the meaning across to those unable to understand the source language. This includes nicknames and insults, of which this is both. The alternatives to gg’s release all “attempt[ed] what gg did here” by localizing the insult.

The only thing that needs to get across is that it’s an insulting phrase. That’s it. So all you need to do is translate “baka” and you’re done. Man, gg fanboys are thick.

>Not even when “hurr” is an actual sound I’ve heard mentally challenged people make when thinking or when stumped?

Do you often listen to yourself think?

>Even excluding my personal experience with the mentally challenged, “hurr” as an insult is a thing outside the internet. You’ve certainly heard “er” once or twice, if not repeatedly because it’s extremely common. It’s a hesitation while the brain processes what to do or say. Now, say you want to mock someone for always needing that extra time. What do you do? Exaggerate the noise. “Er” becomes “hurr” and you’ve got yourself an insult.

Hahahaha. What the hell is this?

Thanks for providing my readers with entertainment, wannabe-kun. This is fantastic stuff.

Darais says:

You’re welcome. I’m simply emulating the best at picking one particular thing and exaggerating its importance in the whole.

It’s such a fun and flawed form of argument, wouldn’t you say? Especially when handled by subpar writers.

Dark_Sage says:

You’re trying so hard, I can’t help but cheer for ya. F-Faito, random-kun!

Darais says:

That’s random-san to you.

Fuwaa says:

I’m bored, so.

“Did I make it the core of my argument? No? Okay.”
See: “Do I see you saying that translating an amalgamation of an insult and a name as an amalgamation of an insulting onomatopoeia and the name is LESS CORRECT than ignoring it?”

Yeah, that’s exactly what you’re saying he’s wrong about, so that’s the core of your argument.

“Not even when “hurr” is an actual sound I’ve heard mentally challenged people make when thinking or when stumped?”

… It would explain why you think that “hurrtora” is a good choice if you say “hurr” every time you think. (It wrote itself!)

“You seem to be unaware of the intent of translation.”

… No, no matter how I look at it, I think gg is the unaware party here…

Fuwaa says:

Haha, my post is obsolete. I shouldn’t do homework and reply to trolls online at the same time. :(

Darais says:

…website where a subpar, biased writer attempts to force his preconceived notions upon others while claiming it to be objective fact.

Dark_Sage says:

You forgot to call me a jerk there. 0/10.

Darais says:

prequel:

Dark_Sage commented on Fansub Review: [gg] Tokyo Ravens (Episode 03).

in response to Fuwaa:

Haha, my post is obsolete. I shouldn’t do homework and reply to trolls online at the same time. :(

Ah, you’re good. Your only mistake was wasting your time on a low-tier.

Darais says:

>Yeah, that’s exactly what you’re saying he’s wrong about, so that’s the core of your argument.
No, my argument was not about onomatopoeia being onomatopoeia. I included the term simply to clarify that a word was being made into a sound, so it was an inexact translation. This also happens to be why I dislike “Hurrtora” myself.

It pleases me to see that I can still spoonfeed insults to people by burying them within my writing. Both you and DS took the bait, and I literally cannot express my vast mirth with words.

Icec0ld says:

So you’re subbing to troll D_S? lol!

AIex says:

I knew it! gg was trolling the release big time, they even used shaman terms. That’s totally different thing

Dark_Sage says:

Just be glad no one in their group knows what voodoo is.

A-fedcII says:

Man I wish gg would stop pulling trolls like that everytime I think they improved they go back to their old habit of trolling.

amma says:

But they got the blue thing on nyaa! So then what did they deceived us the fans then?!!

Dark_Sage says:

Blue status is determined solely by how friendly your group is with Nyaa mods. If you actually believed that blue status was ever an indicator of quality, then you’ve been deceived.

8thSin says:

Pretty much all active groups capable of timely releases have a NT mod in their staff…

A lot of work is put into deciding blues, and usually you have mods representing each group arguing why their releases are better (that’s why series with no clear winners like Machine Doll still has no blue yet).

It’s still subjective because Nyaa makes the call himself in the end, but it definitely has nothing to do with how friendly or how many mods you have in your group.

Dark_Sage says:

>A lot of work is put into deciding blues
>it definitely has nothing to do with how friendly or how many mods you have in your group

This level of comedic gold is too rich even for me.

fnord says:

Everyone, grab your tin-foil hats.

Dark_Sage says:

Yeah, it’s such a conspiracy. Someone call Alex Jones.

fnord says:

Put your amazing English skills to use and write a Da Vinci Code ripoff based on it.

Dark_Sage says:

I never read the book, but I’m going to assume that would have been a spot-on insult in 2003.

fnord says:

It’s a spot-on insult in any year. The book is just that bad.

Hairy says:

What if there was a group that didn’t have anyone on staff that was a Nyaa staff member?

Would that group’s releases still be judged fairly? With all the mods putting forth arguments as to why their respective groups’ releases should be chosen, do you think a group that did not have a Nyaa mod on staff would be given a fair chance to receive blue status?

Or would such a group simply be deemed so insignificant that they wouldn’t even enter the discussion?

It seems you’re confirming what D_S is saying. You’re just justifying it be claiming that most of the prominent, well-known groups have Nyaa staff members working for them, so the pool of groups that could potentially receive blue status is broader than we may think.

However, I’m sure that there are groups out there that don’t have Nyaa mods on their staff. So are you implying that those groups are irrelevant? If some groups don’t even enter the discussion, how can the system be considered fair?

Nyaa may watch every single release for a show, regardless of group status, but lesser groups who don’t have staff in Nyaa will still be at a disadvantage because they’re not afforded the same opportunity that the Nyaa staff are to argue why their release is the best.

Basically, what you’re saying is that all groups with Nyaa mods have an equal chance of attaining blue status, whilst all others don’t even enter the equation.

Nevreen says:

For what it’s worth, nobody in EveTaku is NT staff. And none of us really care, because >caring about blue status. We’ve gotten the blue nod every now and again, but it really doesn’t matter.

8thSin says:

Although I have to agree that minor groups don’t really get a say in it, they’re still considered. I can assure you that in the translation front at least, I tried my best to fairly review minor groups like Watashi or Refrain etc, but it’s usually a landslide decision that wouldn’t have gotten them in any discussions in the first place. Also, most small groups nowadays don’t even get to the translation review stage then editing review, because they have no skilled encoders or typesetters and get automatically disqualified.

Groups with no representatives afaik like EveTaku, Hiryuu, and FFF(before) never had a problem getting their A+s.

You can take this as my biased observation, but honestly, if any good staff in minor groups had enough free time to waste on weekly releases, they would have no problem joining a bigger group and they will, because you lose motivation pretty soon subbing for few hundred viewers. Minor groups are pretty much always inferior. Otherwise they wouldn’t be “minor” and get at least as big as those 3 groups I listed earlier and attract even more capable staff to be able to get A+s.

Dark_Sage says:

8th, I like you, but don’t fucking lie to my readers like that. You don’t even give “minor” groups a fair shot on your site (“groups must be this popular to be reviewed” ring any bells?), so how the fuck are we supposed to believe you’re an advocate for them when your Nyaa buddies are all circlejerking over their own releases?

And what the fuck is that “you have no value unless you’re in a big group” bullshit? Downloads are not an indicator of quality but of marketing. Seriously, man. I thought you were better than that, but I guess the cancer finally reached you too.

fnord says:

And this, kids, is the butthurt of someone who moonlights as a fansubber and is secretly mad his shitsmall group is not respected.

Dark_Sage says:

I take it you’re trying to get under my skin? Maybe it’s just cuz I’ve been playing the fansub game longer than you have, but “lol you don’t sub as much as other people” isn’t exactly going to bring me down. Most fansubbers quit within a few years of joining the scene. That’s just what happens when people get lives, as I guess you haven’t experienced yet.

As for the respect piece, yeah that matters to me. It matters a lot. Too bad the only person whose respect I care about is my own. And last I checked, I’ve never been lacking in it for myself or my group’s members. For you, though, I’m fresh out.

fnord says:

That’s a lot of justifications for someone who claims not to care about my opinion.

Dark_Sage says:

I care about your opinion insofar as I’m interested in invalidating it. Sorry if that’s not ideal for you. :(

fnord says:

I don’t believe I’ve offered any opinions so far.

Dark_Sage says:

None worth actually considering, no.

8thSin says:

“groups must be this popular to be reviewed”
That’s my own stance and I would’ve done those reviews even if I wasn’t a Nyaa mod.

This season, I wouldn’t have even looked at Little Busters 2, which I knew was 100% shit show from the start, Kyousougiga because it’s effort + didn’t feel like dealing with all the complaints that was sure to follow, and started Machine Doll in-depth even though I didn’t intend to start doing those for another few weeks. But I ended up doing them because encode/TS/editing were close enough for multiple groups and Nyaa wanted me to compare translations.

There aren’t many minor groups anymore. Just look at fansubdb this season. The only release I flat out rejected in review was DameDesuYo, which had accurate CR already and I did watch their release, but after 5 minutes, I realized that I was wasting my time.

Download count is mostly the product of speed, but “marketing” effect only exists for groups with consistently come up with good releases no matter how big or small you are. Just look at Doki for huge group failing.

“You have no value unless you’re in a big group” is just basic human behavior. The whole point of fansubbing is sharing whatever series you love watching. Would you waste your time for a small group that nobody watches, or a big one with 20k?
Would a singer ever sign a small no-name label over a huge one? Wouldn’t he want to move on to a bigger label if he had the chance? If someone talented refused to move to a big one, then he’ll eventually get followers and become a big name anyway.

Minor group coming up with any decent fansub release is extremely rare (speaking from experience), and if they turned out to be good, more people would want to join and it’ll get big like EveTaku did few years back. So no, there are no good minor groups, and if they were, they wouldn’t be minor for long.

btw, by “big”, I don’t mean download count but staff size.

I know there are slowsub groups and BD rippers capable of releasing good stuff and still never get their DL counts up, but their staff list is usually huge and they don’t qualify for blue torrents anyway because blues are meant for speedsubs.

Dark_Sage says:

Hm, I must say I like where your logic puzzle’s going. So, 8th: why bother with your own blog when you can just join Crymore instead?

Anon says:

If I start a blog and win the Aniblog tourny (posts when?), can I join Crymore and ghostwrite articles for you so you can fucking RELEASE HYOBU ALREADY?

Dark_Sage says:

Oh yeah, I should get on those things…

I’m always open to new writers, but if you can’t create content that I would want to read regularly — daily, even — then I’m not altogether inclined to hand you the keys to Casa de la Seiji.

archdeco says:

>Implying crymore is popular.

Dark_Sage says:

You can take this as a sad commentary on the state of the anime community, but you can’t name 10 anime blogs that are more popular than Crymore. By all means, you can try, but I’ve looked myself and you simply won’t find them.

Guy says:

duplex, the results are tilted by what google knows of you. I don’t have Crymore as one of my results, even in incognito mode.

Dark_Sage says:

He was giving archdeco a starting point.

duplex says:

No. I had to reply to archdeco because of the comment depth limit.

Dark_Sage says:

Oh.

Well pretend like I interpreted it correctly.

kokujin-kun says:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=fansub+reviews

>trusting google’s “personalized” results.

8thSin says:

Asking me to join crymore is like asking jpopsuki to merge with Nyaa Torrents.

1) I can do it myself so you have nothing to offer. In fansubbing, you have to work with others, so big groups have higher concentration of people who are good at what they do as described above and sheer number of staff to cover in case someone doesn’t show up at specific time.

2) I’m pretty much running the only/biggest fansub translation review already. It’s much more niche than yours, but there’s no bigger portal with more readers.

3) I don’t want to be associated with this reviewing style based on ridiculing releases. I have to admit it’s far more entertaining than my blog, but I like to keep it serious most of the time.

4) I’m pretty much at slowsubber status. I DON’T want to spend too much time on it and blogging is just something I do on the side.

But yes, if someone who depends on blogs, like an advertiser who only cares about number of views, would clearly want an ad placed on your website than mine. Although, if it was a godly ad that was more fun than watching anime, then I have no reason to believe my blog would remain small.

Dark_Sage says:

If you want to be technical, Crymore is the biggest fansub translation review site. I guarantee kokujin’s articles get more hits than your blog does and ever will.

That being said, I wasn’t expecting you to accept; I just wanted you to realize it’s not all about the hits. Because if it was, you’d have already asked to join. It’s the same with fansubbers.

Maybe all you care about is being with the biggest names, but not every fansubber wants to be a sycophant. Everyone has their own motivations, so painting people with a wide brush and telling them they’re idiots for not having the same beliefs as you is rather ignorantly arrogant.

XiaYixuan says:

>Everyone has their own motivations, so painting people with a wide brush and telling them they’re idiots for not having the same beliefs as you is rather ignorantly arrogant.

Yeah. I don’t want to name the groups but I saw a release not so long before where two of the most major groups made a joint. I read their OP TL, and thought “Fuck, I hear some words differently on half the lines. I’ll never be able to TL an OP myself.” and when the official lyrics appeared they changed their OP to the correct Japanese words, and I realized that it’s not that I misheard the words, it’s just that them major groups jointing couldn’t be arsed to make the effort of trying to hear the correct words. (It was released less than 12h after airing so I assume they made a rushed job for the DL count or something.)

8thSin says:

The reason I use jpopsuki vs Nyaa analogy is because it’s the wrong target. Jpopsuki torrents would definitely get more download counts if they moved to Nyaa, but it’s a closed tracker not intended for leechers. I couldn’t care less about someone who’s reading only for drama either.

Technically, I have the biggest fansub translation review site. Just search fansub+translation in google incognito mode. Crymore is not even more relevant than notredreview yet in translation. In case you don’t think google search order means anything, it ranks based on various factors including turnover rate (how many people click then leave your website right away) and % of people who clicked on SERP, even though your website has clear advantage in traffic and inbound links.
Not to mention the fact nobody really comes here to see which group’s script is better. It’s not a real review site.

As for the big group argument… I’m not saying a big groups always have good releases, because obviously speed > quality for download counts.
You can be a big group and still suck, but what I’m saying is that minor groups almost always suck.

It’s just that whatever you do in fansubbing, other than maybe timing, need considerable experience and you can’t get good overnight. Most minor groups die away in less than a year (just try to find any minor fansub groups that stayed minor and survived for extended time) before they get any experience. They just can’t keep up the motivation to continue.

QED: Small speed groups would turn into big groups if they are any good. Most are not and die away.

This is all assuming anyone who is qualified to join big groups willingly joins small groups in the first place. It doesn’t happen in real life and a good major leaguer would never join a minor league team even if it wasn’t just about money/download counts.

Anyone who doesn’t want their release to be the absolute best, which requires you to work with the best in other fields… don’t have the drive to get good in anything.

Dark_Sage says:

TIL, shit groups:
Mezashite
EveTaku (pre-2013)
rori
a.f.k.
Everyone that’s not Commie

Yup, seems about right. Thanks for the insight, 8th.

>Technically, I have the biggest fansub translation review site. Just search fansub+translation in google incognito mode. Crymore is not even more relevant than notredreview yet in translation. In case you don’t think google search order means anything, it ranks based on various factors including turnover rate (how many people click then leave your website right away) and % of people who clicked on SERP, even though your website has clear advantage in traffic and inbound links.

Hahaha, page rank. Okay, whatever makes you feel better about no one visiting your site, even though you’re clearly hung up about rolling SEO all over it. Protip, though: the reason no one cares about it is that your content is shit. The only groups you score high are those you’re in, and you think 10 lines in a Pastebin will justify your sad attempt at marketing yourself and your friends. But keep blaming me, cuz that makes sense.

XiaYixuan says:

>Anyone who doesn’t want their release to be the absolute best, which requires you to work with the best in other fields… don’t have the drive to get good in anything.

Ya. Point of the day: Those two groups don’t have the drive to get good in anything. Noted.

8thSin says:

???
Mezashite – Not a minor group in terms of downloads.
EveTaku (pre 2013) – Not a minor group, also had some experience before anime. Also pretty shit without lyger.
rori – Has Nyaa mods…
afk – wut? Not a minor group when they were active.
Commmie – I don’t even like Commie, and I have prevented at least two of their series from getting blued this season.

“Hahaha, page rank. Okay”
Um… we both have shit page rank. It’s 2/10, and your site has higher SEO potential than my blog no matter how you look at it, yet my page ranks higher. Hmm…

If you mean “care” by people complaining about how wrong your ratings are, then yes, not many people cares about my blog :(
I don’t really need to justify myself because every fan translator already knows I can TLC pretty much better than anyone else who’s still active. My blog IS in a pretty shitty condition, but even then, 10 lines in a pastebin have more credibility than your reviews.

And yeah, of course whatever group I’m in scores well. Didn’t you read the part where I implied I only join groups that I consider to have capable staff? Also, I grade groups I’m in tougher than all other groups simply because I have higher expectations from them.

Seriously, both we both know minor groups are shit. Even Kokujin-kun routinely score them lower than major groups in translation reviews, and he’s not even native Japanese…

I know you’re doing this on purpose to create more drama, but you’re just making yourself look stupid by making it too easy to refute.

Solaristics says:

>Not to mention the fact nobody really comes here to see which group’s script is better. It’s not a real review site.

Says who?

>The only groups you score high are those you’re in

I didn’t realize 8th was TLing for CR, Funi and Viz (rips of which have gotten most of 8th’s good grades this season).

RDF2050 says:

@Dark_Sage

You really want the 8th_Sage to happen. (You said this almost 2 years ago.)

Dark_Sage says:

I’d be interested in having the 8th from 2011 on Crymore, sure. I’m less excited by the prospect of dealing with a Nyaa flunky, though.

begna112 says:

*off topic* mind if I ask why you rejected DDY? You can message me on IRC if you prefer. I’d appreciate the feedback.

Monkey D. Fluffy says:

>Would a singer ever sign a small no-name label over a huge one? Wouldn’t he want to move on to a bigger label if he had the chance? If someone talented refused to move to a big one, then he’ll eventually get followers and become a big name anyway.

What? Do you have any idea about the record industry? Because a lot of artists value the creative control they can have with independent label or by publishing themselves. Especially as the promotion you can get from a major label is no longer as necessary as it was before the Internet.

Likewise, there are fansubbers who value picking their shows themselves and not having to sub shit as their group members please.

8thSin is from now on forbidden from talking about the music business.

8thSin says:

Joining a label where there’s less pressure and to do whatever you want for a niche audience: Pretty much describes slowsub groups.

And of course, most of these releases (songs) are not even considered for major awards (blues) by industry critics because they’re in different fields, but if their songs are somehow marketed, maybe through word of mouth because they’re good, and get decent sales (fast release and high download counts), they are no longer considered to be minor and get considered for awards.

You can make the assumptions that more well-known groups have more skilled members in fansubbing because it’s always possible to fansub without releasing, just like singing in a band as a hobby without ever uploading your songs to iTunes. The fact that a fansub group releases their work means they want to spread their work for whatever reason since there’s almost no money involved.
The most popular and best reputed bands will always get more recruits because they have the capability to spread a new member’s work, which enables the group to select the best of the crop instead of hoping your friends or whoever is available happen to be good.
And for minor groups, you are either stuck with people who weren’t selected by big groups OR someone who’s not very motivated to spread their work so they don’t apply in the first place. Maybe someone wants to start a new band or someone good is a very loyal friend and sticks with the group, but the likelihood of every other members being as good is low. In the long run, big groups can still be shit due to bad management and recruiting the wrong people, but the chance of minor groups being any good is even lower.

Yep, music is pretty much the perfect analogy either way.

Dark_Sage says:

1. Nyaa mods aren’t industry critics. You’re loudmouths with a talent for kissing ass. Outside of your little circlejerk and confused downloaders, you’re relevant to no one.

2. >You can make the assumptions that more well-known groups have more skilled members in fansubbing because it’s always possible to fansub without releasing, just like singing in a band as a hobby without ever uploading your songs to iTunes. The fact that a fansub group releases their work means they want to spread their work for whatever reason since there’s almost no money involved.

What am I reading?

3. You’re so confused about fansub culture it’s kind of sad. Sapphi should have never dredged you up from the asian drama scene. Recruitment depends on marketing and group mindshare, sure. But not everyone subscribes to the “if my group doesn’t get 20,000 downloads in one day I’m going to kill myself” methodology. As an aside, what you fail to realize is that people aren’t downloading your subs; they’re downloading the anime you attached your subs onto. Get over yourself; you don’t matter.

4. I guess lyger should have joined UTW when he started. What a fucking idiot he was for wanting to sub shows with his friend. And I should have joined Commie when I had a chance. What a fool I am for starting up an anime blog. But wait, by your logic if I join up with Commie, I’ll magically get better at English. jdp! RHE! Please let me in! I’ll be the best suck-up you’ve ever had, just so long as 8th teaches me his ways!

Your devotion to this “popular means good” ideology has destroyed whatever little credibility you had from me talking you up back when you weren’t a shitbag. And if popularity really is everything, then this popular bad-boy would like you to do us all some good and kill yourself off. The scene doesn’t need any more cancer than it already has.

Ryuk says:

All you mentioned were big groups. Evetaku doesn’t have a Nyaamod but still gets blue once in a while because they are well known. Before when they were a small group, and had great subs, they probably won’t be mentioned in the discussion. There are other groups that aren’t known as much, but still have terrific subs aren’t included in the discussion for blue status.

And no, minor fansubbers who have the skill don’t lose motivation because of the number of downloads. They fansub because it’s a hobby; it fun (maybe). They fansub with their friends. They don’t join big groups because they don’t like big groups.

You won’t understand the brain of minors nor how small groups become big.

Also, if you haven’t noticed, most of Evetaku’s staffs are in ONLY Evetaku. Unlike FFF, gg, UTW, Vivid where they share every staff. Evetaku is a REAL fansub; they started from scratch and slowly got bigger and bigger. Whereas Vivid, started with like 5 Nyaamods.

aers says:

lmfao

anyone not in the nt staff room probably shouldn’t say anything about what groups are considered for A+

Dark_Sage says:

Anyone in the nt staff room probably shouldn’t say anything about that either.

aers says:

but anyone in the staff room can see the list of groups that have been considered

and thus can probably say who has been considered

just sayin

Dark_Sage says:

I meant they shouldn’t have anything to do with the A- process at all. Apologies for the confusion. <3

Ryuk says:

More like from the current Nyaa A+ statuses given out, it’s clear how A status are decided.

Anon says:

http://puu.sh/5gKan.png
I think this speaks for itself.

Nevreen says:

I feel I should mention that a lot of EveTaku staff are actually in other groups as well: Calyrica, lunr, Rekyu, trichinas, and myself come to mind. I don’t want to get involved in this argument, because I think it’s a rather pointless one, but just sayin’.

Ryuk says:

I’m not saying there aren’t any, I’m just saying a good part of them.

Anon says:

FanCREDIT != FanSUB

Aladar says:

Idk bro, I can prove you wrong by simply saying that my releases aren’t blue, and I was the oldest person on the staff when I left a while back. Sorry.

Dark_Sage says:

Should we know who you are?

aers says:

Well, you shouldn’t.

Dark_Sage says:

Yeah, that’s what I figured.

Ash says:

Horriblesubs chose not to rip the Crunchy stream of this show so that more people would support the GG release, just like Valvrave.

fuyl says:

Probably because HorribleSubs is run by ex gg members.

Dark_Sage says:

What do you mean “ex”?

random says:

And they got Nyaa to mark it as an A+ release too. gg apparently has power over everyone except D_S.

a5bwc3dx says:

I checked 8thsin site so I trusted his grade because he has a strict policy about trolling and whatever, I will stop doing that from now on. How did he miss that?!
My suggestion: he should review the episodes after checking this site. He have paragraphs called Nuance and Flow in my opinion they should reflect upon the reviews here.

Yumi-chan says:

8thSin only reviews episode 01

Anon says:

I’m pretty sure this was in the first episode too.

addityo says:

maybe 8thsin not see “hurrtora” as an error or anything..

8thSin says:

I didn’t really like it, but it’s hard to argue that’s an error or even trolling.

It’s not an important concept by any means. Just a random nickname meant to ridicule him, and as long as it means a combination of his name and some add-on that means “dumb”, then it’s not really a translation issue and a matter of preference.

erejnion says:

Well, it’s still a bad choice. Not that I can’t live with it. I am still undecided on whether I can live with the show itself, though.

an6 says:

Troll lol. Guess I will wait for HS version.

Justaway says:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71721455/Pics/%5BAnime-Koi%5D%20Tokyo%20Ravens%20-%2001v2%20%5Bh264-720p%5D%5B9E02D3C9%5D.mkv_snapshot_06.01_%5B2013.11.12_15.13.26%5D.png
Well, Anime-koi’s looks better with their “Tora, you dummy”, but onmyo exorcist… What the fuck is this?
And yeah, like comment below mine, I saw nothing wrong with this “Hurrtora”.

Ryuk says:

So no one’s clever enough to come up with a good translation for “bakatora”?

Kiraly says:

onmyouji > exorcist > onmyou exorcist >>> shaman

wtf gg was on when they decided to translate it to shaman I’ll never know.

furzi says:

You can blame Japan for that one.

http://cal.syoboi.jp/tid/3167/time

>SHAMAN*CLAN

Kiraly says:

They were obviously just trying to sound cool.

Onmyouji is already an established term (with over 1 million hits on google, if you count both spellings), it didn’t need translating.

And if you do choose to translate it for some obscure reason, at least pick the other common translation for it, exorcist.

Darais says:

>at least pick the other common translation for it
>other common translation for it
>other common translation

You just admitted that it’s a perfectly valid translation. Now your argument is “I prefer what they didn’t do, so they’re obviously incorrect and trolling.”

Kiraly says:

The original sentence was “at least use the translation other anime keep using”, except that didn’t work as an argument, so when I rephrased the sentence the word “other” stuck. You’re just nitpicking.

Dark_Sage says:

That’s not what Kiraly meant. You’re trying way too hard.

Darais says:

I don’t try. It writes itself for me.

I’m just enjoying my off time.

Dark_Sage says:

Really? You’re spending your vacation trying to play gotcha with perfectly understandable comments on an anime blog? That’s just too adorable.

You should spend your next vacation playing astronaut helmet with a plastic bag.

Darais says:

Oooh, that sounds fun! You can join me too.

You’ll be the asteroid I ram the cold, hard haft of my flagpole into when I complete the extraterrestrial mission.

Dark_Sage says:

Missing the point has never been so cute.

Darais says:

And while I’m here, “off time” does not equate to “time off” in any form or fashion. Off time is short amounts of time in which you’re doing nothing between doing things (such as a five minute break), while time off is time specifically taken for personal enjoyment.

Dark_Sage says:

That sure is some backwater phrasing.

Darais says:

You’re right.

Dark_Sage says:

>Well, I don’t know what this “hurr” means
If you don’t know what the word means, and you aren’t intelligent enough to google it, what makes you informed enough to state that another line is better or worse?

A-fedcII says:

gg staff for that project at least ain’t that intelligent to do that. They should replace them if gg wanna keep its fame.

KoolKidsK says:

Am I the only one who saw nothing wrong with hurrtora? I liked it and didn’t see it as trolling. My friend said he’d use “idiotora.”

addityo says:

count me in..

Anon says:

Hurrtora is pretty abjectly terrible. They also have a few other troll-y lines such as “Smells like teen spirit,” but for the most part it seemed fine to me, including a few actually clever lines here and there.

Dark_Sage says:

Literally the only one.

njd09 says:

Nah, I’m with you on that one. I think Hurrtora’s totally fine; I chuckled a little the first time I saw it. I think it’s way better than just giving up and ignoring the fact that it’s a nickname. The “Smells like teen spirit” line was fucking awful though.

Still, other than that, I’ve been pretty pleased with the 5 gg episodes I’ve seen.

Dodgers says:

To be fair your friend’s suggestion of “Idiotora” sounds better than “Hurrtora”, but I do agree that gg’s choice doesn’t seem to be an attempt at trolling, not when the nickname’s purpose is to mock the guy in the first place. I don’t see why this release should get an F just because of this alone, and I certainly can’t see the reason why the rest of the script wasn’t reviewed to properly justify that F grade. I’d like to believe this review’s purpose was not a cheap attempt at getting more views by generating fansub drama, but reviews like this make me question just how much credit should I give.

(Yes, I’d rather read a proper, detailed and reasonable fansub review than an attempt at reviewing so cheap even the cockfight-filled comment section has better content in it. No, I don’t care how much traffic drama generates or how “entertaining” it is, it can’t replace a review.)

Dark_Sage says:

Posts like this one are not what generate the most traffic to Crymore. Keep guessing, though.

Dodgers says:

As I said, I’d like to believe view hoarding isn’t the reason why this review is lazy and centers around pissing on this release just because of hurrtora, but I’m left with not much options if you don’t even bother to review the episode well enough to justify the rating and the attitude. If the post’s title suggests that the entire episode is reviewed (as opposed to something like “My reaction to gg’s take on a nickname in Tokyo Ravens’ third episode”), then I think I’m not asking for the unreasonable to review the whole thing properly and justify your grading, instead of fretting over one nickname and acting like the rest of the episode doesn’t exist. Yes, using “hurr” in a translation is usually a thing everyone should avoid, but the original nickname’s meaning and the purpose of that nickname makes hurrtora a justified, but still very debatable translation, even if Harutora and Hurrtora sound similar enough. It would be an entirely different matter if Bakatora would be the guy’s actual name and gg would’ve went with Hurrtora, but the context makes things complicated enough to not make me shout “trollsub!” right away.

Still, I don’t care at this point if this post was meant to stir things up for some extra traffic with minimal effort, or you were just too lazy to review the whole thing, this review just doesn’t provide enough reason why I should outright avoid gg’s release, let alone treat it like a release so shitty I shouldn’t poke it even with a long stick. Unless the rest of the release is riddled with errors severe enough to make that F justified, which is hard to see when the review doesn’t even care to talk about it. And I’m not into this “fansubbers shitting all over each other because of reasons” business to be satisfied with a fansubber drama either, I for one care more about the content of the review.

Dark_Sage says:

Perhaps my timeline response to Mints(Anonymous Mode) will suffice as an answer.

If not, I’m not sure what to tell you. This is the entirety of the review and there will not be a re-review. I’m not going to waste my time on trollsubs no matter how you beg. My standards are not that low.

Dodgers says:

I wasn’t demanding(/”begging”) you to rewrite the review, I was only curious why did you decided to go with the notion to base the entire review around that one nickname and give the release an F when it wasn’t even mentioned how the rest of the script is fairing. The answer you gave to Mints is already a more reasonable attempt than what you did in the review (read: none), altough I still don’t get it why you bothered with this review if a nickname translation like this is what it took to review a show’s episode you apparently don’t care about so much. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to get under your skin, I just expect a fansub review to actually review an episode’s script/typesetting/etc. with a reasonable grade at the end, and if a post is supposed to be a review, then I don’t expect a short rant with a grade that might as well worth nothing if the rest of the script and the other aspects aren’t taken into consideration. Yes, hurrtora is still a debatable translation and I get your frustration, but I hardly believe the rest of gg’s work on this episode is so bad the hurrtora alone nerfs the grade this much, or the entire episode consisted of nothing but “hurrtora” over and over again.

Dark_Sage says:

I left it as just this because there’s nothing else to say. It doesn’t matter what the karaoke’s like. It doesn’t matter what the typesetting’s like. It doesn’t matter what the rest of the script was like. All that matters is that they took what was supposed to be a rather sentimental ending and ruined it. So they got an F.

Dodgers says:

Look, I get what is your beef with this nickname (even more so if that ending is *that* rather sentimental), but I still think this train of thought is not a good reasoning for a review, let alone from someone whose site centers around reviewing fansubs. It would work in a rant-type of post, or a post where you showcase some examples of how questionable fansub translations can ruin scenes, but in a mere review with a grade? No, not when one very questionable intepretation just can’t bring down an entire release like this, and you still want people to take the review seriously. Sure, the nickname itself may not sit well with the ending, but what about the quality of the rest of the episode? What if that nickname would’ve been translated differently? How well done the rest of the episode is, and how much this nickname translation brings it down? Better yet, what would’ve happened if you would actually like this show, would the episode suddenly get a Z rating? Or would the rating suddenly jump into an A if that nickname would be translated differently?

This is what I’m trying to get at all this time: it’s fine and dandy to get annoyed by a translation like this and this is why I’m saying this shouldn’t have been a review in the first place if this alone causes you this much problem, but ignoring the rest of the release in a review for a reason like this just doesn’t fly with me. Especially not when you couldn’t even be bothered to explain your stance in the review itself, and people had to pull out a reasoning from you that still doesn’t say anything remotely useful or insightful about the entire release. It’s one thing to aim for objectivity, and it’s another to just getting a severe tummyache over one nickname and deem it a worthy enough material for an actual review.

anon says:

Absolutely this.

Whenever I see a D or F review I always have to scroll up and give it the “okay, is this actually a bad release, or is D_S fishing for a bunch of comments again”

Dark_Sage says:

Like I need to fish for anything. Shit subs get the scores they deserve.

Xikarra says:

Who cares? This show is bad anyway.

Kiraly says:

Any chance of this getting an actual review as well? I want to see just how badly gg screwed the dog with this one.

Dark_Sage says:

Nope. I’ve got better things to review with my time than trollsubs.

Eggfz96 says:

I could’ve swear that whoever edit this have a serious hate problem with the main character. She/He tried to troll every line the main character spoke it reminds of SACRED SEVEN project. They did the same with it.

AnimeNOW says:

50+ comments already and it’s not even a Vivid/Commie review what is this

Dude says:

It’s a gg review.

Nevreen says:

This is pretty laughable, to be honest. I don’t particularly like “Hurrtora” myself, but it’s a viable translation and a rather minor thing to get hung up over. And compared to the alternatives other groups and you yourself have proposed, I have to say it’s the best of the lot. Claiming their whole release is a troll because you don’t like their translation for a nickname just makes you look silly, D_S.

Darais says:

I’ll post down here to draw Sage’s attention to this comment, since he seems to love hating on me at this point – for good reason.

This is my entire argument. I decided to be a bit more entertaining in my way of framing it by using myself as an example. My goal was to look silly, stupid, trollish, what have you while saying Dark_Sage’s entire site, all of his “releases,” are worthless because of one post.

In any case, I meant no offense in any of what I said; it was all staged. I hope the readers got a good bit more enjoyment out of my shenanigans than they did from reading the short, close-minded review above. A bit more meat to the review and I wouldn’t have shown up.

Dark_Sage says:

Wow, you sure got me. I thought you were retarded, but it turns out you were just pretending. Boy is my face red!

Darais says:

If that’s all you walk away with, then it’s beyond my hands. I thought you’d give me some consideration, since you take every chance you get to scream about Nyaa not letting less popular groups on their site, but I guess your hypocrisy runs deeper than even I could dig.

Dark_Sage says:

I only give consideration to those who have value. Let me know when you think you’ll make the cut and I’ll re-evaluate your status then.

Nevreen says:

I’d rather you hadn’t associated with my post, to be honest. Acting dumb/trolly in the comments to stir up an even dumber “debate” and/or “lulz” doesn’t exactly do much for your credibility.

Darais says:

I apologize, then. I had no way of contacting you to ask permission, so I simply did. Please, forgive my transgression.

duplex says:

>people actually arguing about a crymore review
Why bother? Nobody wins.

Anonymous says:

The readers win.

Qrius says:

Welcome to the Internet! Please enjoy your stay.

Anyway, blowing minor stuff out of proportions is just what D_S does these days… Nothing to get too excited about.

Anon says:

D_S pls stop making people mad and gib Hyobu.

laughingimoutos says:

I don’t actually care about Tokyo Ravens, but I appreciate the work you put into providing entertainment. Keep up the good work.

DxS says:

>reviews release he doesn’t know futsuu
>This is a far better option than Funimation’s >reviews release he knows futsuu translated
>Par for the course for a Futsuu translation. No wonder people skip fansubs whenever they can.
okay.jpg

I’m sure he’s not biased at all guys. Don’t worry.

Dark_Sage says:

Hey DxS, haven’t seen you here for almost a year. Wish you would’ve kept the streak going.

I’m not a big fan of Futsuu, no. Let me know when he can translate a -monogatari without ruining it like he did with the Commie release.

I think that’s a little unfair, considering a) you know how poorly the editor who worked on Commie’s -monogataris has performed in the past, b) you know how difficult a -monogatari can be to get right and c) you’ve given a decent grade to nearly every release he’s worked on that isn’t a -monogatari.

Anon says:

Nigger learn to “>”
newfags

Dark_Sage says:

Continued from http://www.crymore.net/2013/11/11/fansub-review-gg-tokyo-ravens-episode-03/comment-page-1/#comment-103567

“btw, by “big”, I don’t mean download count but staff size.”
*Dark_Sage lists groups with small staff lists*
“???”
How is this confusing?

Mezashite has three members.
EveTaku didn’t have any notable experience before they jumped on the scene, and they had like two members to start with.
rori may have Nyaa mods but they never collected staff like Pokemon.
How the fuck is afk considered big? They had like one or two dudes, that’s it. One, IIRC, but I never really kept track.

And dude, I don’t even know what you’re talking about when it comes to SEO. “2/10” means nothing to me. Maybe you like to play games with Google, but all I care about is creating content that my readers enjoy; I don’t need to trick people onto the site. It’s a little harder to create that content when I have to handle crybabies who comment on my articles, but I guess I just have to accept that as an inevitability that comes from not being a kiss-ass.

Every group deserves a fair shot regardless of how many staff they have or how many downloads they get or the “pedigree” of their fucking name. Linking quality to downloads is pathetic and cheapens the very notion of a review blog. May as well just create a list of the most popular groups with a nice blue background and call your site done.

Fix your shit, 8th. I’m feeling embarrassed for you.

Jordaww says:

“I know you’re doing this on purpose to create more drama, but you’re just making yourself look stupid by making it too easy to refute.”

yes… He’s making himself look stupid…

shcboomer says:

Glad to see you care about your content over some SEO.

8thSin says:

“btw, by “big”, I don’t mean download count but staff size.”
*Dark_Sage lists groups with small staff lists*

Shit, that came out so wrong because I was typing two long comment on a notepad (I always accidentally out of textbox and lose everything) and I missed a huge chunk where I wrote how “big” slowsub groups don’t die out and can still come up with good releases.
But then I realized it was confusing because I was referring to groups with high DL count as “big groups” and corrected that in another post, which went to a totally wrong place :(

You just merged two posts together and now it looks like I’m contradicting myself as to how qualified fansubbers want to join big groups in terms of downloads lol

Anyway, we were talking about blue torrents all this time, and those groups are clearly the type of groups that were given a chance despite not having much influence among mods. Some of them did get blues.

As for the blog argument…
I’ve made 7 posts all year after a long hiatus so clearly you get a bigger following.

Just look at this post. It’s not even a real review and clearly posted just to stir up fansub drama. Many readers are even saying the reason you didn’t review, “HurrTora”, is not trolling. Just a single poor word choice for the general audience (some people actually like it). Then you diverted the discussion for even more fansub drama when you don’t want to admit your mistake.

Then you have shitstorms like the whole “cage” and “youmu stone” thing for Kyoukai no Kanata, where you were clearly created just to get more views to your blog. “Cage” translation has already been proven to be appropriate since they started using it to trap enemies. They also say both “youmu” and “youmu-seki” (literally +stone) too.

You never had a case with any of those, and I truly hope you’re deliberately making these reviews as a form of entertainment rather than intending it to be a serious review. Because right now, the general sentiment among fansubbers when they see a harsh reviews are “look what crazy D_S is doing now” vs “why is 8thSin being so fucking picky?”

Dark_Sage says:

I merged your posts because it looked like the second was one you wrote was an extension of the first, and it was placed as a new comment in reply to… nothing. That’s what I get for trying to help. Don’t act like this is some kinda conspiracy to make you look bad; your shoddy English already writes that story.

EveTaku only ever got blues for “four” shows: Chitose Get You, GJ Bu, AKB0048, and two episodes of Rozen Maiden. For some reason none of their prior work made the cut. Kinda interesting how that only happened after they grabbed more staff. afk never got blue, nor did Mezashite. Looks like the only group that did well in that field is rori, which had… oh, Nyaa mods like you said? Fair, sure. If you’re going to lie, make it more convincing, please.

BTW, if I wanted to get more views to Crymore I wouldn’t be focus on low-hit reviews like Kyoukai no Kanata or Tokyo Ravens. Way to talk out your ass on a subject you have no business commenting on. I know what sells and I don’t care; I just write what I want to write.

The only reason you and your ilk get pissed off when I write reviews like this or Kyoukai is that you can’t handle it when people don’t ride your dick for making bad decisions in the interest of lolhilarity or some fucked-up blind obedience to a script you’re misinterpreting. I don’t care what you low-tiers think because I have no interest in the fansub circlejerk — my success doesn’t depend on sycophantry. Getting mad at me won’t change reality and I’m not going to lie to my readers just so you can feel good about yourselves.

Get lung cancer already.

You’re missing Evetaku joint blues such as Sakurasou, Tamayura (both seasons) and all the other episodes of Rozen Maiden.

Dark_Sage says:

Yes, those are indeed joints. What does that have to do with EveTaku as a standalone group?

Were we talking about Evetaku as a standalone group? These are releases that Evetaku worked on that got Nyaa’s blue rating. That’s what matters here. That said, it doesn’t really matter anyway because there were releases they did previous to those that deserved the blue rating just as much but didn’t get it for whatever reason. So it’s not like I even disagree with your point.

And a nyaa search suggests that afk never got blue because they barely have anything uploaded on the tracker to begin with.

Dark_Sage says:

I’m not certain how that invalidates my point, but whatever makes you feel good.

Monkey D. Fluffy says:

Nyaa was not a particularly relevant or even existent tracker when a.f.k. were most active. Their last finished show was Haruhi S2 (2009), and before that SZS (2007).

Yeah, that. Basically what I was trying to say. Thank you.

8thSin says:

I’m just typing as fast I can between breaks. It was just what happened, and it was my fuck up.

EveTaku has subbed like 20 shows in total?
5 + 2 joints blued out of 20~30 shows is in no way a bad ratio.

Also, I don’t see why that’s even a point if they don’t get blued. They’re in serious shortage of good translators. Lyger is the only exception from what I’ve seen, but he’s more effective as TL than TLC and their accuracy is pretty inconsistent depending on who’s working on what shows. I can’t speak for other aspects of fansubbing, but it’s hardly a surprise that Commie gets way more blues because they’re doing like 20 shows a season with mostly official subs, which tend to be very accurate recently?

I seriously don’t get how you’re still arguing about knk. I guess it’s just pointless trying to argue with someone who refuses to listen.

Dark_Sage says:

EveTaku only had two normal-length series that they did on their own get the circlejerk’s approval. Great ratio, indeed.

As for Commie, all they do is make things worse (example) and then earn your praise. Yes, that’s an A+ release, certified by you and all your buddies. So don’t try to bullshit me or my readers that this is anything other than a “I want to feel good about myself, so I’m gonna give myself a gold sticker” designator.

You’re still wrong about KnK. Maybe if you actually put effort into your English you’d be able to understand where I’m coming from. Seriously, you’ve been learning it for, what, 25 years now? Why can’t you understand it at a native’s level yet?

8thSin says:

Commie got blued by default for that series because there’s no other group subbing it and the only other option is HS (no TS or real timing).
http://fansubdb.com/wiki/Autumn_2013

I agree that it can’t be denied mods are selecting based on their tastes. That’s just how it is, because your ratings can’t be completely objective either. Maybe that’s the case for close calls, but that’s to be expected. I can’t imagine any mod arguing their release is better when there’s a clear winner though.

There’s a wall of text in KnK thread telling you why they’re accurate.
Translating “ori” as “barricade” is like saying “Stargate” doesn’t lead to stars so it should be “Planetgate” because it’s a gateway to other planets. It’s series terminology and just let it go.
And when someone says “I had chicken for dinner”, do you think they ate a live chicken? Or chicken in another form, like roasted chicken? That’s just casual speech.

It wouldn’t hurt to admit that you were wrong every once in a while.

Ryuk says:

IIRC, there were some shows that Commie wasn’t doing; it was only HS and some other group (I don’t know which one) and that group didn’t get blue status.

Ryuk says:

A-Destiny didn’t get blue for a show that THEY were only doing.
Mezashite didn’t get blue for Aikatsu!
Anime-koi didn’t get blue for Hakkenden Touhou Hakken Ibun.

ar says:

Kingdom is terrible nobody cares about reviewing it.
Aikatsu is Love cats.
Anime-koi didnt deserve A+ for that bad show.

Ryuk says:

8thsin said Commie gets blue by default for being the only sub besides HS to do the show. And even with not editing the script, just having typesetting and timing, they should get blue right? By default at least.

Kiraly says:

The latest episode of Kingdom has nearly 10000 downloads, not counting the downloads from the SD version. This despite the eye cancer in the first season. It’s NOT terrible.

aers says:

Aikatsu doesn’t have an A+ because no one cares about shows for little girls except like me so why would anyone even bring it up

Ryuk says:

Mezashite should still get blue by default? According to 8th, they should.

aers says:

no i mean no one even noticed it started airing or thought to give it blue because no one cares about those shows except me.

Ryuk says:

Then why don’t you review it and give it blue?
At least Dark_Sage has the decency to review a show he doesn’t like, even if he reviews it unfairly (this review was unfair).

Or why not just give it blue because D_S gave Mezashite a B-tier. Didn’t 8th say when it’s a close call, they may turn to D_S’ reviews. And if you guys aren’t going to review, then turn to D_S’ review.

aers says:

well they probably wouldn’t have gotten blue when it first started airing because their first few episodes are awful.

now? dunno. i dont really involve myself with the A+ stuff.

Ryuk says:

By when it first started airing you mean the first few eps. Like ep 1-4 or something like that, right?
According to Crymore, they have B-tier subs for their 3rd episode. And no one else is subbing it (not even CR/HS). Where’s the blue?

aers says:

first of all i dont really care about crymore’s reviews

shows dont usually get A+ when they’re already 56 episodes in, thats just how it works. sorry

ar says:

aers is a true gentleman~

Ryuk says:

You don’t have to say sorry to me. I’m not part of Mezashite and I don’t even like the show. The point is, if you guys (nyaa staff) were doing what 8th said, then Mezashite should have blue, but they don’t, do they? In conclusion, NT isn’t doing what 8th said they’re doing.

ar says:

You sir are fighting a losing battle. Please stop.

Dark_Sage says:

Losing battle? He offered sufficient evidence to prove what a joke you guys are.

If you want to circlejerk, fine, but don’t act like there’s any special meaning to it, you hypocrite.

Ryuk says:

Losing?
A great man once said, “Commie got blued by default for that series because there’s no other group subbing it and the only other option is HS (no TS or real timing).”

I hope you guys to live up to that great man.

Hell, HS isn’t even subbing it.

ar says:

Ryuk stop being mad about whatever that show was that you wanted A+’d and didn’t get it.

And yes losing battle, because nobody gives a shit about someone who’s mad.

I bid you adieu.

Ryuk says:

I’m not even in Mezashite. I don’t care about the show. I never wanted a show A+’d.

archdeco says:

Then why were you bringing this particular show again and again? aers already explained why it never got A+.

8thSin says:

Um… no one in staff watches those random shows.

afaik, someone still have to be watch to make sure the release doesn’t have neon fonts, rainbow karaoke, and still have decent script quality, or there won’t be an A+.
Just because those awards are handed out doesn’t mean anyone’s obligated to check every single show for every season. That makes no sense.

Waltz says:

And Nyaa A+’d Commie’s Ace of Diamond for shitty editing? lel

RDF2050 says:

Aers pls

There are people who really care about the anime. However, since we are nobody, we don’t count. :(

Dark_Sage says:

Crunchyroll does typesetting now, and I’m not sure what you mean by “real timing”. TPP, perhaps? Yeah, I guess that makes up for making the script inarguably worse than the Crunchyroll version they ripped. But defend Commie all you want; all you’re doing is proving my point. And with the list of releases Ryuk so kindly provided… Well, looks like people aren’t as gullible as you hoped.

As for objectivity, actually Crymore is perfectly designed for it. Think about what exactly it is my reviews focus on: the negative aspects of a release. With this, I am incentivized to look carefully at each release and bring the most prominent mistakes/issues to light. This way, groups know what issues to focus on to improve and my readers have an idea of what exactly they can expect from groups. And the more mistakes I find, the more entertaining it is.

So now let’s say I’m biased. Let’s say I’m a big jerky jerk face and want to bring Our Saviors UTW down because you guys don’t like butterscotch pudding or something (you monsters). The worst I can do is… give you a normal review. What else am I gonna do? Create mistakes? That’s a bad idea; all it would do is make me look stupid. So I write everything I find, and if I’m ever wrong, I edit my reviews accordingly. (Do note I considered your knk translation for ori an acceptable alternative after an individual in the comments came up with a compelling argument.) Negative bias can’t factor in with the open way I write my reviews.

Of course, that’s only negative bias. What about positive bias? What possible conflicts of interest would I have? Wanna come up with a list of groups that I would be predisposed toward because I’m in them? I can wait~ And am I the kind of person who would look the other way when a group fucks up just because I like them?

Every one of my readers already puzzled this out on their own. That is Crymore’s secret sauce. Feel free to follow the recipe if you want, the steps aren’t all that difficult, after all.

archdeco says:

>crymore
>objectivity
>gives an F just because he didn’t like subs for the ending part (one word)

Great “objectivity” there, bro.

Dark_Sage says:

If you ruin the experience with trollsubs, then I’m not inclined to give you an A. If any other group did the same thing, they’d get an F too.

archdeco says:

“All that matters is that they took what was supposed to be a rather sentimental ending and ruined it.”

That’s your subjective opinion. There’s nothing objective here. You just wrote off this entire release as a trollsub because YOU didn’t like that one nickname. Wanna show some objectivity? Do a normal review.

Dark_Sage says:

This is a normal review and it follows the standards I’ve set in the past. Trollsubs get F’s.

I believe I outlined my argument well enough. If you disagree, too bad. The score stays.

archdeco says:

Then I must be blind. If this is a normal review, where are:
– Table of Contents
– Release Information
– Visual Review
– Script review (with an actual content)

There’s nothing of value here. Just a few screenshots along with two sentences that can be summed up as “this release is shit” without any reasonable justification and a bunch of insults.

So yeah, it’s not a review. It’s a pathetic attempt to prove that fansubs are shit and people shouldn’t waste time on them.

Dark_Sage says:

Oh well there you go. My sagey sense was indeed accurate.

shcboomer says:

Well… That settles that…

OuxHi says:

holy hell…what the crap is that

njd09 says:

http://puu.sh/5hTJv.png

Yeah, their episode 6 is pretty fucking terrible.

Dark_Sage says:

He answers his own question. Now that’s just efficient scriptwriting!

shcboomer says:

That is how I imagine all great subs to look.

AnimeNOW says:

I found that CR has some frames off now and then with timing because their player has a auto fade on liens that have no lines after it. It’s pretty cool and easy on the eyes (when it doesn’t fade right before a fade on the anime) – I’m pretty sure they time with that auto fade in mind

Anon says:

>Crunchyroll does typesetting now

http://imgur.com/OPSRLvr,6pg3vAc

I guess you could call it typesetting, if you really wanted to.

Not that I disagree with you on the script-ruining point or anything; I mostly just wanted a chance to point out the hilariously bad typsetting on CR’s part.

kokujin-kun says:

Hopefully that’s actually Crunchyroll and not Horriblesubs, because those two can often be two different creatures.

Plus CR can’t really do any fancy typesetting because fonts are copyrighted and their streams have to be viewed by as much people as possible, so they keep it really simple.

Anon says:

It’s a HorribleSubs release, but I was under the impression that HS just straight ripped Crunchy’s work without any changes at all. I don’t usually watch HS though, so I have no idea if that’s the case here.

AnimeNOW says:

With the first image that never looked like that to me so that’s on your end or it’s like that on the newest episode. Other one fuck I know. Maybe they have rules they have to follow or some shit with \n’ing

Anon says:

It’s only like that on the latest episode, yes.

Ryuk says:

They’ve subbed 28 and are currently doing 3.

fnord says:

おごれる者も久しからず、ただ春の夜の夢の如し。

-_-

Dark_Sage says:

>Who is also ogo Zu Hisashikara, Gotoshi only dream of spring night.

fnord, what is this?

fnord says:

Your belief that Google Translate is a source of translations.

Dark_Sage says:

I’m sorry, let me rephrase that: It’s quite rude to converse in a language that most of the people around you can’t understand. So you are going to apologize to myself and my dear readers and refrain from doing that in the future.

Thanks for understanding. Let’s put a one-hour clock on that apology.

fnord says:

Blah blah blah.

User was banned for this post ;_;

Dark_Sage says:

Ooh, I’m afraid that wasn’t the answer I’m looking for. Enjoy the vacation.

Anon says:

I, for one, am insulted.

kokujin-kun says:

Why did I miss the party? ;_;

shcboomer says:

Looks like that train is long gone…

Wow says:

I don’t know the book’s translation but it’s something like “The prideful never last; like a spring dream, they pass,” i.e. arrogant people burn themselves out. It’s from the Tale of the Heike.

Anon says:

gg fails because of this but Commie doesn’t for Eotens.

I love consistency.

Dark_Sage says:

Commie went with Eotens because they’re retarded, gg went with Hurrtora to troll. That’s the difference and it’s where I draw the line.

Anon says:

Aren’t gg and Commie the same thing nowadays?

Dark_Sage says:

Yes, but Margaan (Eoten) and DxS (Hurrtora) aren’t.

Anon says:

Fair enough.

Monkey D. Fluffy says:

I’d rather say that “Hurrtora” is dumb and “Eotenas” is an autistic attempt at trolling after they read the word in a thesaurus.

Anonymous says:

Eoten isn’t really a word you’d find in a thesaurus.

It also would have been pretty much the perfect word to use had the series not already had a semi-official title.

Monkey D. Fluffy says:

If not a thesaurus, an etymological dictionary (or Wiktionary) would also do:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/giant#Etymology

“Replaced native Middle English eten, ettin (from Old English ēoten), Middle English eont (from Old English ent).”

You could argue for “ettin”, but thanks to D&D it makes me and probably many others think of two-headed giants.

Dark_Sage says:

That’s the conclusion I came to at first, but Margaan’s actually just really fucking out there.

Anonymous says:

Just out of curiosity, was that the only trolling bit in their release? If memory serves, when gg troll it’s usually all over their script, so this feels a bit too subtle to make it through their “trolling mode”.

To me it looks like they went with “Hurrtora” ’cause it sounds a lot like “Harutora”. Maybe it’s not the best choice or w/e, but to classify it as trolling is taking it too far I think.

mints says:

bah. I forgot to add my nick^

Dark_Sage says:

I wasn’t paying attention to the release because I tend to zone out when watching shows I don’t really care about and aren’t up for review yet. That is, I must reiterate I never planned to review this release.

Here’s how it went:

0:00-20:05: Flat-chan is so hot, Flat-chan is so hot, Flat-chan is so hot.
20:05: Wait, what is this?
20:07: Uhh, gg?
22:33 …
23:12 Really? You’re going to ruin the conclusion of the arc with this shitty attempt at trolling? Fuck this.

For those not in the know, “hurr” is an internet meme that equates to “the sound a retard makes while laughing”. Harutard is something I would also call out. If you’re going to use “retard” or the like in a script, there better be a good reason for it. “lol im funy” is not a good reason.

If you’re going to play that shit at the closing of an arc, there better be a damn good reason. I’m here to watch an anime, not your attempts at entertaining /a/.

shcboomer says:

0:00-20:05 seems to be the best timeframe for the release.

kokujin-kun says:

Yep, this is simply the end result of a fansub culture that is too insular, too incestuous, and lacking too much self-awareness to the point that they believe that this terminology is in any way acceptable. I’d probably have the same reaction if I heard that line being said by an actor in a movie I saw at the Regal.

/buttsucking

Gebbi says:

I watched gg’s episode 01 release and “Hurrtora” has already been used in it. Didn’t feel off there, because it was a lighthearted scene (and I don’t really care about nickname translations). So how could they’ve known by episode 01 that “bakatora” will be used in a more dramatic scene (I didn’t watch this episode, I’m just guessing by your reaction that there was some kind of drama), where “Hurrtora” might be considered inappropriate?

I don’t really care whether you’re giving them a proper review or not (your page, your rules), but imo

>All that matters is that they took what was supposed to be a rather sentimental ending and ruined it.
>If you’re going to play that shit at the closing of an arc, there better be a damn good reason.

is not quite fair, considering that they couldn’t have known any better (except by reading the source material, but lol shitty LNs).

Gebbi says:

Oh, I forgot that Crymore doesn’t support blockquote-Tags (or did it in the past?). Those lines before and after the […] are D_S quotes from the comments. Just in case anyone is wondering about the formatting.

Dark_Sage says:

It might have. I just 4chon quoted the line so people wouldn’t be confused.

Dark_Sage says:

You’re right, they were just trying their best to make a high-quality release. Mean old mister sage should keep his mouth shut and let the circlejerk continue without interruption.

Gebbi says:

>You’re right, they were just trying their best to make a high-quality release

I nowhere said that their release is good, because I don’t know if it is (judging by those screencaps it might have some major trolling issues in later episodes), as I just watched through episode 01 without any further analysis (and they didn’t troll that much in the first episode iirc). I just wanted to say that changing his nickname throughout the show, because it doesn’t fit anymore in later episodes, would be a huge consistency issue.

Dark_Sage says:

Sure. But it’s absolutely their fault for having his love interest essentially call him a retard in the first place.

Anon says:

I’ve watched up to episode four with gg and aside from Hurrtora I’ve only seen two or three lines that were bad enough for me to notice. The only one bad enough that I remember what it was is “Smells like teen spirit.” If you just ran a find/replace on Hurrtora and made it something bearable, it would be a pretty decent release in my opinion.

Anon says:

I like how all these mighty fansubbers that “don’t care” about this site and are above criticism come here and try to justify themselves.

Ryuk says:

Is this a record of number of comments?

Dark_Sage says:

No, this article has that honor: http://www.crymore.net/2013/05/09/i-am-dark_sage-ama/

Drama is interesting, but nothing beats Dark_Sage.

shcboomer says:

What happens if this gets more comments because of drama?

Dark_Sage says:

AMA v2.

2ColouredEyes says:

Oh! My memory tells me that there’s another GG review that got an F and not-as-much-comments like this but still, a lot of comments.

I honestly don’t find anything wrong with Hurr-, I watched too many GG releases perhaps I am immune to it.

Solaristics says:

I guess you missed the other ss’s that D_S didn’t put in?

2ColouredEyes says:

Unfortunately.. well.. I’ve missed a lot, it seems. Was too entertained by previous posts’ internet/blog drama then I found this: a GG review with an F. By reflex, I went “God! Why! I chose theirs over HS and A-K! WHY!?”

Need to rush through the whole comments then.

Solaristics says:

It’s a fun read, you should so :D.

Anonymous says:

Remember when fansubbers weren’t egotistical fucks and actually cared about putting out good subs instead of putting in le epic memays and legendary references for download count?

Spoiler:
I don’t.
ar says:

Remember when viewers weren’t whiny faggots who complained about every little thing because their free cartoons aren’t perfect?

Spoiler:
I don’t.
Hairy says:

I think everyone understands that their free cartoons aren’t going to be perfect.

It’s the subs for said cartoons that we would like to be perfect.

ar says:

You could always fansub yourself if you want perfect subs for your not-perfect cartoons. Perfect is a pipe dream.

Anon says:

>free things are immune to criticism
>having standards and expecting services to be acceptable is “whining”
>not wanting epic memes and lolsorandom ‘humour’ in your subs is “whining”
>being this full of yourself

I honestly hope that you get hit by a truck and become paralyzed from the neck down.

Fuck you.

addddddd says:

@Anon

??

ar says:

He seems a little upset about his chinese cartoons. Don’t mind him.

Fuwaa says:

It’s just a sad thing when people say “It’s impossible to obtain perfection” and use it as an excuse to justify not putting in any effort. That kind of attitude is poison and will ruin your life and the lives of those who care about you. I hope for your sake that you take a good, hard look at yourself and consider changing.

Thanks for warning me against watching any show you’re involved with, by the way. ^o^

ar says:

Uh pretty sure it’s stupidity that’ll poison and ruin you life, but that’s just me.

Perfection is just that, a pipe dream, doesn’t mean you can’t hope to obtain it and try your hardest, just means that if you expect such things you are naive.

And please don’t talk like you know me when you don’t have the faintest of ideas about me. I hope for your sake you take a good look at yourself too and consider changing.

Feel free to not watch anything I’m involved with, I won’t lose any sleep over it~ w.

Nevreen says:

I always like how leechers use the “free things are not immune to criticism” card as if that gave them the inherent right to be douchebags. Fansubbers won’t get mad at you for pointing out errors they’ve made. We put ourselves out there when we release things, and criticizing publicly available content is fair game. That doesn’t mean we have to endure abuse from fucking whiny leechers who get off on ridiculing people who put in the effort to bring you your precious fansubs.

There’s a world of difference between, “Hey, why’d you guys go with Hurrtora? That sounds like a dumb meme,” and “You guys are faggots. I hope you die. This is the worst shit I’ve ever seen.”

Anon says:

Sounds like you’re bitter that you’re not getting your ass kissed for because God’s gift to Japanese-English translations.

Nevreen says:

Oh, and also: making baseless assumptions about people you don’t fucking know, questioning their integrity, and shoving words in their mouths is absolutely retarded and puts your ignorance on display for everyone with an inkling of insight to see.

Fuck every single one of you assholes.

Nevreen says:

@Anon: If that’s what you got out of my post, then good subs would be wasted on you anyway because you obviously can’t even read.

Anon says:

Oh no, I read your posts thoroughly, but you still sound like you’re mad for no reason other than people don’t worship fansubbers as gods and put up with their bullshit.
If you were any more narcissistic, you’d start a blog.

Nevreen says:

Yes, because “criticizing publicly available content is fair game” definitely means “worship us for gracing you with these perfect subs”

You are capital D Dumb.

Anon says:

No, but “we waste our time releasing subs for e-penis, so you should respect us and if you don’t like our subs you are a complainer” definitely does not mean “we’re all likable, down-to-earth people who try our ganbare”.
You’re releasing them on the internet for fucks sake; if you can’t handle feedback (both positive and negative) in polite and not-so polite ways, maybe you should fuck off into irrelevancy and see how many people care.

You are capital E Egotistical.

Nevreen says:

I’m egotistical because I don’t want to have to deal with fucking personal abuse for doing something as a hobby? I obviously can deal with it or I wouldn’t have kept fansubbing for the past four years, but that doesn’t mean I want or should have to deal with little boys who derive enjoyment from harassing people.

And you’re still claiming I’m opposed to criticism, when I’ve been saying the opposite from my very first post.

Dark_Sage says:

>We put ourselves out there when we release things, and criticizing publicly available content is fair game.

Correct.

>That doesn’t mean we have to endure abuse from fucking whiny leechers who get off on ridiculing people who put in the effort to bring you your precious fansubs.

Wait, what?

Dude, deal with it. You shouldn’t freak out like a fucking kid at the slightest hint of criticism that comes from outside the scene.

If you can’t handle personal attacks, I can totally understand where you’re coming from, but you’re going about it completely the wrong way. If you honestly need help with how to interact with fansubbers/leechers, shoot me a PM on IRC sometime, but I would expect a four-year vet to be able to handle that not everyone is gonna like you and that sometimes they’ll use mean words to indicate it.

Nevreen says:

Like I said, I can handle personal attacks, but I shouldn’t have to. I should be able to fansub and expect criticism for my work without having to deal with people being assholes about it or attacking my character.

I’m not so much freaking out as proposing a reasonable middle ground where I can enjoy the hobby I put effort into and leechers are free to express their opinions on my work in mutual respect. It’s somewhat of a pipe dream, I know, but if you’ll forgive my stealing this phrase, it’s part of my ongoing “mission to civilize.”

Fuwaa says:

(All quotes from Nevreen)
“I can handle personal attacks, but I shouldn’t have to.”
“I’m… proposing a reasonable middle ground where I can enjoy the hobby I put effort into and leechers are free to express their opinions on my work in mutual respect.”
“I always like how leechers use the “free things are not immune to criticism” card as if that gave them the inherent right to be douchebags.”
“That doesn’t mean we have to endure abuse from fucking whiny leechers who get off on ridiculing people who put in the effort to bring you your precious fansubs.”
“There’s a world of difference between, “Hey, why’d you guys go with Hurrtora? That sounds like a dumb meme,” and “You guys are faggots. I hope you die. This is the worst shit I’ve ever seen.””
“Fuck every single one of you assholes.”
“You are capital D Dumb.”
“…that doesn’t mean I want or should have to deal with little boys who derive enjoyment from harassing people.”
“Oh, and also: making baseless assumptions about people you don’t fucking know, questioning their integrity, and shoving words in their mouths is absolutely retarded and puts your ignorance on display for everyone with an inkling of insight to see.”

Nevreen says:

Juxtaposing disparate quotes out of context sure is fun. None of that is really contradictory, though. I’ll show respect and courtesy to anyone who criticizes my work in an equally respectful manner. If you’re going to be an asshole or start making personal attacks, I feel no remorse reciprocating the sentiment.

Anon says:

Let’s be serious.

Dark_Sage says:

ar, you’re not responding to his argument. In fact, you’re actually agreeing with him.

Fuwaa’s problem is “It’s just a sad thing when people say “It’s impossible to obtain perfection” and use it as an excuse to justify not putting in any effort.”

Your response, “Perfection is just that, a pipe dream, doesn’t mean you can’t hope to obtain it and try your hardest, just means that if you expect such things you are naive.”

From here, it looks like you both agree that people should try their best even if perfection is unattainable. I’m not sure why you decided to try and spin that into an internet fight.

ar says:

Because fights on the internet are fun and because Fuwaa has no idea what he’s talking about~

will says:

I love ar.

He’s the cutest fansubber around.

ar says:

Boom shake shake the room~

aers says:

there are 0 moments in history in which fansubbers weren’t egotistical fucks

sorry

Jark says:

Speak for yourself.

Chaos-kun says:

based on Dark_Sage ヽ(・∀・ )ノ

AnimeNOW says:

The ride never ends

Marow says:

I don’t visit the site for a week and what the heck did I miss

SomeLoser says:

tl/dr: Words were used, lives were ruined.

Justinnnnnn says:

>slightest hint of criticism.

I find it sad that DS says this when in that very same chain of comments someone said “I honestly hope that you get hit by a truck and become paralyzed from the neck down. Fuck you.” C’mon guys, really?

If ar or any other fansubber that often receives abuse like that read this, I offer you my thanks for your work and hope thou remain strong :l

Fuwaa says:

Justinnnnnn: You’re defending the guy who called you and all the other viewers whiny faggots. And implied that asking for anything more than the least possible effort is asking for perfection. All fansubbing would lose if he leaves is an obvious troll.

Nevreen says:

I must have missed the part where ar said anything about his being an important part of fansubbing and then threatening to quit the scene. I guess that would have been a relevant point to bring up if he’d actually said that.

And obviously he didn’t mean every single viewer is a whiny faggot. He was replying to a gross exaggeration with one of his own. Surely you’re not so stupid as to take that literally. You claim he implied that asking for anything more than minimum effort is expecting perfection, whereas I remember him saying explicitly the opposite: “Perfection is just that, a pipe dream, doesn’t mean you can’t hope to obtain it and try your hardest[…]”

ar says:

Reading comments/posts on the internet is hard bro, as you’ve found out.

Fuwaa says:

Yep. Reading is hard. Allow me to clarify.

“I must have missed the part where ar said anything about his being an important part of fansubbing and then threatening to quit the scene.”

1) I wasn’t responding to a statement of ar’s.
2) I was responding to Justinnnnnn’s hope that ar and other fansubbers like him remain strong.
3) No one said ar was ever significant in any way. It’s the opposite: I said that if he was gone from the scene, nothing would change aside from lacking a few troll posts in some number of forums and blogs.

“Perfection is just that, a pipe dream, doesn’t mean you can’t hope to obtain it and try your hardest[…]“

Except he also said “You could always fansub yourself if you want perfect subs for your not-perfect cartoons. Perfect is a pipe dream.” (no ellipses) The quote you used was sophistry on ar’s part as he attempted to change his stance from the original line without admitting being wrong. *** The term “pipe dream” is used to say that one shouldn’t bother to work towards the goal because it is implausible. *** Saying that you CAN try your hardest is condescending in this context, like encouraging a fly to keep buzzing at that window trying to get outside.

So, my wording might have been a bit off. Rather than “asking for more than the minimum effort is asking for perfection” I should have said “asking for more than the minimum effort from someone like ar is a pipe dream.”

You can hope to obtain it and try your hardest[, but if you expect such things you are naive].

Justinnnnnn says:

Fuwaa dude, must you interpret everything everyone says for the worst? I couldn’t care shit what ar really really really meant, I think his comment was pretty obvious, and if there was any doubt, HE JUST CAME HERE AND REPLIED TO CLARIFY ANY POSSIBLE MISUNDERSTANDINGS.

And before you go all douche on me and say ‘Oh but he only said reading comments is hard, bro’, he was basically agreeing with Nevreen. If he wasn’t in agreement, he would most likely say so.

I usually encourage people flaming and throwing jabs at each other (D_SxXythar fanfic where), but when it gets to the ‘I hope you die you fucking asshole’ level, that’s no fun. So peace man, peace.

Anonymous says:

You must not enjoy the flame wars very much. I, for one, highly desire this one to continue.

Fuwaa says:

I knew he was in agreement with Nevreen. I responded to him instead of Nevren because the response flowed better from that statement.

I also don’t exactly care for wishing death or injury on people. I just feel like ar is not particularly worth giving any support to. My opinion will probably change if I see him do anything other than troll or flame.

Peace out, dude.

ar says:

Give up while you’re behind.

Some things would change if I was gone maybe but nothing that would matter to you. We’re all just cogs after all.

Also, it’s not that your wording is a “bit off”, it’s more that your ability to read and comprehend is a “lot off”. Go back to school and try again.

Fuwaa says:

… I’m amused by the fact that you say I’m wrong and then reword what I said – that you’re insignificant – while acting like it’s a counterpoint to what I said. You did it before, too.

I don’t really like insulting people, but if you tell someone their reading comprehension is poor while showing your own lack of understanding, you probably are used to being called an idiot.

I’d tell you to go back to school, but you probably just haven’t gotten to that level of English yet.

ar says:

Uh, yeah. The problem here is reading your posts hurts my brain.

I’m not sure what your argument is other than the following tl;dr:

> ar doesn’t give a shit and never tries.

You obviously have no idea of where I’m from or what I do so this is just a plain retarded statement.

> ar is a nobody

I don’t care about the latter, since essentially we’re all nobodies, but I’m somebody to people that matter to me and that’s all that matters imho.

> the only things ar contributes are troll posts and flaming.

I don’t even know how you came to this conclusion. It beats me.

> ar can’t into English.

I’ve been speaking english my whole life though.

> I like going off on tangents and writing excessively pointless tl;dr posts

Yes, yes you do.

> I really don’t like insulting people, but ar is an idiot

But you have no problems misjudging people right? That insults me more than being called an idiot, not that insults on the interweb matter, just par for the course.

Fuwaa says:

“> the only things ar contributes are troll posts and flaming.
I don’t even know how you came to this conclusion. It beats me.”

This is is sarcasm, right? Because:

written by ar NOVEMBER 15, 2013 AT 10:53 PM
-“Because fights on the internet are fun.”
written by ar NOVEMBER 20, 2013 AT 1:07 AM
-“But then you’d be happy. So how about fuck you, and I won’t~”

“> ar can’t into English.”
I didn’t say you can’t understand English. I said you have poor reading comprehension. Reading comprehension is taught in English classes, and the focus in high school English and anything further was on reading comprehension. My apologies for not spelling everything out for you.

“Uh, yeah. The problem here is reading your posts hurts my brain. I’m not sure what your argument is other than the following tl;dr:”

No, forget my previous arguments. I’m amazed you understood as much of what I said as you did if you didn’t even read the posts! (/sarcasm)

“You obviously have no idea of where I’m from or what I do…”

And you didn’t care to enlighten me. ^-^ I’m willing, as I said, to change my mind if I’m wrong. I just won’t have a reason to change my mind until you act in a way other than trolling or flaming.

“But you have no problems misjudging people right? That insults me more than being called an idiot…”

When you’re called an idiot, you don’t feel misjudged? ;)

ar says:

Read 3 posts down. (4 now.)

Anonymous says:

What are you going to do if people keep making posts between yours and his, causing the number you wrote to be wronger and wronger?

Anonymous says:

And by post I mean comment.

NEKO-NISE-SSY-BDs-FUCKING-WHERE says:

Stop circlejerking around pls and give us something we want!

ar says:

I can give you a cookie, would that suffice?

NEKO-NISE-SSY-BDs-FUCKING-WHERE says:

> get some more guys to join UTW
> lead a coup with the new guys
> kick out Raze
> slavedrive the new guys to finish the backlog
> release
> enjoy lots of praise. All hail UTW.
See, that’s so easy.

Anon says:

You can fuck off; that would suffice.

ar says:

But then you’d be happy. So how about fuck you, and I won’t~

Solaristics says:

A lot of butt hurt here.

Pacific_Eos says:

Harstuporhuh. Done.

BTW, I’ve de-abbreviated my handle of Pacific and added a Gravatar.

Pacific_Eos says:

>Dark_Sage and act like that’s something a 15-year-old girl is gonna come up with.

Doesn’t this means we’re supposed to be cute? Where’s my punderous applause? :-(

Any-hew, 15 seconds with Ageisub to swap “Hurrtora” with “Whac-A-tora” and F is transformed into A. Or is that an Eh?

“Whac-A-tora,” ’cause much as they try pounding sense into Harutora, he keep popping up with the obtusity.

Gay Fox says:

Threads like these are why I always say to avoid this site in general, and definitely never respond to posts in an official manner.

If leechers actually cared enough about quality, they’d be making their own subs.

Anon says:

If citizens actually cared enough about how their county is being run, they’d be running for office themselves.

Look I can do it too.

Gay Fox says:

I’d actually agree with your statement. Well, with the understanding that the citizens we are talking about already possess certain political knowledge, social abilities, and financial capital. The barriers to entry for holding office are unfortunately high, (at least in the United States, and I am not qualified to comment on the situation in other countries) but anyone with a computer, internet connection, and functioning eyes/ears can make a noticeable impact on fansubbing. Which is a given considering that they are downloading and watching anime in the first place.

I would amend your statement thusly:
“If citizens actually cared enough about how their country is being run, _and they had the resources to run for office_, they’d be running for office themselves.”

begna112 says:

Anyone who says there are few barriers to entry in fansubbing and all it requires is an internet connection to make a noticeable impact hasn’t ever tried to start from scratch. Sure, you can go read the aegisub manual, the few timing guides that are out there, the insanely outdated encoding guides, scrounge for information on how to properly typeset and do karaoke and even work on your english grammar or japanese.

But none of that (if you actually find the few sources out there) will really prepare you for fansubbing. Each of the parts of fansubbing has unwritten precedents, tricks of the trade and simply hard to understand or figure out.

A few examples:
– Timing: what are proper lead in/out times and why? How do you create proper keyframes for a video and why aren’t all keyframes equal?
– Typesetting: how do you effectively mocha/motion track? What are all the quirks of each automation script? How will your typesets effect performance on a video and will it be even rendered correctly on different players? Why will some groups fire you for using sign styles and others will fire you for NOT using them?
– Encoding: what the hell do all the options for encoding even mean? Where do you find all the filters you need (most of them are really old and the sites that were hosting them are long gone)? And let’s be honest for a second… no matter how much digging you do through doom9 and videohelp and the few anime encoding guides, you will always be mocked for your encoding even if it ends up better than the source.
– Editing: what are stock phrases and when should you avoid them? What are all these little editing rules that only really appear in a dialogue context that is rarely seen in anything but anime? What are the proper places to split lines and how much localization is appropriate?
– General: even IRC/bots/blog hosting/servers for distribution have their own barriers that not every viewer is capable of or willing to overcome. Not to mention the abuse from leachers and trolls, drama from fansubbers and bias from admins on every site.

In general, you’re better off pursuing a career in politics because there are just as many if not less barriers and, guess what, you’ll actually get paid. Like in politics, you won’t become influential in fansubbing until someone influential supports you and teaches you and, by then (if it happens at all), you’ve joined the fansubbing cult that hordes and hides how they do what they do and is quick to reject and mock those who aren’t as good but expect praise nonetheless.

Black Shads says:

>benga acting like he’s been on the scene for a decade.

gj <3

begna112 says:

I think you’re really forgetting that i’ve recently have and still am going through all this myself… You dont need to have been in fansubbing a decade to realize all that. Just try to start fansubbing from scratch.

Gay Fox says:

“Anyone who says there are few barriers to entry in fansubbing . . . hasn’t ever tried to start from scratch.”
You have good points here. But to be fair, everyone had to start somewhere. Now if there’s one think I don’t recommend, it’s running off and starting your own group, releasing things lone wolf style. Everyone has to learn somewhere, and while learning from guides is doable, it’s so much better to learn from another human. If you want to go through it all by yourself… you’re honestly making things unnecessarily difficult. People are willing to help, and you’ll find that indeed many _want_ to help. Just having the option to ask simple questions goes a long way.

The fact that your recognize that some of those are opinion-based issues (e.g. “Why will some groups fire you for using sign styles and others will fire you for NOT using them?”) indicates that some of them don’t have a right or a wrong answer. So for those, I think we can agree that it’s not a huge deal as long as it looks right, and I’ll focus on the rest of your post.

Good guides for learning timing and typesetting: http://commiesubs.com/interns/ http://whynotsubs.com/A-guide-to-timing-in-Aegisubv2.pdf Clearly they don’t cover everything, but quite a bit of the important stuff is here, including lead in/lead out, keyframes, and mocha. These are both accessible from a quick Google search. I don’t see a note about BT.601/BT.709, which is important… But most of this comes from experience. After a season or two of doing a weekly show as a timer/typesetter, you’ll have a pretty solid grasp of the fundamentals by the end. (Some people just can’t typeset though, I don’t know why. Poor perception of colors and 3D space?)

Now, with regards to editing remember, we are talking about some random whining leecher here, so we can make a few assumptions. (No, I don’t think it’s realistic for some random non-anime watching person to be able to jump into fansubbing.) Our leecher thinks he’s a god-tier editor. He always whines about lines and choices that editors from other groups are making, remember? So I don’t think he’ll have problems with that. (And for some reason, it seems like some people _just can’t edit_. It’s weird, solid education, grasp of English, but inability to make scripts read and flow better.)

I’ll give you distro, you’re right that that’s not super easy to set up effectively. Then again, if you can make a torrent file (which all modern torrent clients can), then for the most part you’re set on that. (Torrenting really has improved distro from the FTP days…) Encoding too. I still have not found a decent modern encoding guide anywhere on the Internet. Collections and snippets of advice here and there, but nothing really solid.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, the easiest way to learn is to join an existing group. Most are frequently or always recruiting. (Of course, super well-known “elite” ones probably aren’t…) Get good at a few tasks, make the group good. And then consider starting your own.

“by then . . . you’ve joined the fansubbing cult that hordes and hides how they do what they do and is quick to reject and mock those who aren’t as good but expect praise nonetheless.”
I’ll have to disagree with you here. You’re not forced to join any cult. And you don’t have to change who you are.

I encourage leechers to start fansubbing so that they understand how painful it is, why perfection is so difficult to obtain, and in the hope that the best ones will stick around and improve the scene as a whole.

Black Shads says:

In the time it took you to write that, you could have sucked a mod’s dick and gotten into an “elite group”

begna112 says:

I think you and I see eye to eye on alot. But I think you are a bit optimistic on how willing most fansubbers (disclaimer I could have just spoken to the wrong ones) are to give any kind of advice or even links to the guides you posted. It took me knowing a retired fansubber to get anyone at all to even give me a link to commie’s intern page (and, yes, I did ask in commie’s chan).

And like I said to someone on IRC a little while ago, my point was that there is a very small chance that anyone starting fansubbing would truly be able to influence fansubbing much at all on a large scale. Unless you consider the font of a sign or the decision of whether or not 200ms after a keyframe is enough to extend the subs past said keyframe to be changing the entire fansub experience. You really do have to be at group-leader or “god-tier” fansubber or some site admin/mod level to make these kinds of changes. Bluntly put, influence gives you influence. ┐( ̄ー ̄)┌

And, I assume you know this, but I did start my own group and have thoroughly enjoyed it. lol

On a slightly off topic note, unanimated’s site is much more up to date than commie’s intern page: http://unanimated.xtreemhost.com/ might keep that one in your arsenal.

Gay Fox says:

Yeah, definitely a lot of variety in the population of fansubbers. Then again, people vary a lot too. (To be fair, I also got my start from having a fansubbing friend.)

I’ll say that the number one place for new groups to really make a mark isn’t being the nth release for some show CR is already doing, in addition to edits by Commie, FFF, WhyNot… let’s be real, one of the bigger, more experienced groups is probably going to do a better job than you. Pick up the shows that no one else is doing. Ever since CR started getting big, there are fewer of these shows, but you can still definitely develop a following. (See Gaist Crusher, Aikatsu, Koroshiya-san, and a number of other shows only being done by smaller groups http://fansubdb.com ) When there’s no choice but your group, people will watch your subs~

Anyway, It’s hard to start a group, congratulations. Thanks for that link too.

Nevreen says:

Uh, I know lyger ran a typesetting bootcamp over the summer, and people in #irrational-typesetting-wizardry are usually willing to answer questions. Between that, unanimated’s guides, and his and lyger’s automation scripts, you should be set on the typesetting front at least.

As for encoding: don’t bother. Most of the time, you’ll need to know someone who can hook you up with a .ts, and encoding is buried so deep in arcane bullshittery and no-documentation that you really just need someone to teach you. Not to mention the scene really isn’t short on encoders.

Timing: Seems like it’d be fairly easy to learn. Commie and Doki have guides for it, and it’s mostly just practice makes perfect.

Translation: If you’re a good JP->EN translator, pretty much any group will pick you right up.

Editing: This is the one that might be hardest to get into. Like you said, there’s a lot of knowledge that’s rather specific to fansubbing, but the scene is kind of short on good editors at the moment, so if you brush up on your English and writing skills, you should be able to get picked up as a QC at the very least. I do believe starting out as a QC is a very good way to learn how to be a good editor (it’s how I started). I’m actually toying with the idea of starting up some kind of editor training/hangout next season, similar to what ITW did with typesetting, but no promises.

begna112 says:

Feel free to come join us in #DameDesuYo. We’re discussing this and other stuff lol

ar says:

Just got home from work, so kinda tired but uh.

Timing isn’t too hard, mostly takes practice and apply some common sense to it i suppose.

“Keyframes” are easily produced from doing an XviD Stats Pass (Pass 1) on your working video. You can use xvid_encraw.exe (command line with avs source), virtualdub (xvid vfw encoder) or avisynth with scxvid.

Encoding well it’s not something you jump into and expect to be good or even competent. The more you read and learn and screw up, the more you improve. Get to know people and I’m sure they’d be happy to help you if you put the time in yourself too. I’ve been encoding for uh 6-7 years and I still consider myself bad. Mostly because there’s a lot I don’t know and a lot I’d like to know but don’t have the time to learn.

Typesetting I picked up on my own and have been doing it for uh nearly 4 years I guess? A long time now. Screw up and get better, and learn things yourself. Read up on things like typography, etc. It all helps. You should be able to learn how to use assistant software like Mocha yourself, just by reading the manual and using some common sense. It’s so easy these days. Back when I started using it I had to code my own conversion scripts, etc because there was nothing publicly available.
Other typesetters in the past have done similar things too, either with Mocha or After Effects. And again if you try and put some effort in and people can see this, they’ll be happy to help you out.

There’s plenty of fansubbers out there who will help you if you spend time getting to know them and they can see that you are interested in what you want to do, and are putting the time in yourself as well to learn.

I started from nowhere, and made a lot of friends along the way, and learned many things. It’s the same for most other people (besides aers because he is kawaii.)

begna112 says:

I’m not saying I don’t know this stuff now lol. (still have alot to learn tho) but this may honestly be the most comprehensive “this is what you need to do” guide for fansubbing i’ve come across and its in the comments section on crymore. maybe something I’ll work on on the side.

XiaYixuan says:

>There’s plenty of fansubbers out there who will help you if you spend time getting to know them and they can see that you are interested in what you want to do, and are putting the time in yourself as well to learn.
Yeah. I went to Hadena and they taught me kindly.

>(and, yes, I did ask in commie’s chan)
Maybe you should’ve gone to Hadena instead of Commie, begna112?

temp_late says:

I’m kind of waiting for HEVC (h.265) adoption, whereupon encoders will have to replace arcane x264 bullshittery with arcane *insert HEVC encoder* bullshittery. Oh yeah, maybe we’ll get better quality/filesize too.

(okay, most of the mess is effort and stuff prior to the encoder, but humor me a bit)

Anon says:

You won’t see (good) fansubbers use HEVC for another year or 2. It’s far from finished.

Nevreen says:

Yeah, HEVCv1 was published less than six months ago, and it’ll be a while before you see any good encoders for it, and then it’ll be even longer until proper codecs are developed to decode it. Throw in a lengthy debugging and adoption period, and 2+ years sounds about right.

Leona says:

>begna

┐( ̄ー ̄)┌

begna112 says:

Seconded. Irc pls.

aers says:

you dont even have to fansub to get into the fansubbing community

see: me

lae says:

aers pls

(also me too)

begna112 says:

Haha. How’d you manage that one? Just knowing the right people?

Gay Fox says:

aers you’re special~

ar says:

aers is the best fansubber who never fansubbed.

Dark_Sage says:

Have you ever considered avoiding traffic like you avoid my site? I think you’d be good at it.

ayynewnEmis says:

These comments are fucking priceless.

Abunja says:

Please, don’t dig up somebody else’s grave. gg’s been dead for a long time now, so have them lay rest in peace.

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