Subtitle Comparison: [Aniplex vs. AnonsAlliance vs. GJM] Kamisama ni Natta Hi (Episode 01)

This post was written by Dark_Sage. He is Dark_Sage.

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Shout-out to SugoiFentanylOverdose for helping me fuck with my MPV configs; I’ll use that software going forward. Typesetters, you can stop molotoving my house.

 

Groups

Quick Overview:

  • Aniplex (official subs)
    • Screenshots in this post come from the Erai-Raws rip
  • AnonsAlliance (Aniplex edit)
  • GJM (original translation)

Unlike with Promare, where everything was poorly edited off the same base, each release has a unique take on this series, with a full two of the three worthy of consideration. (Sorry, AnonsAlliance, but you guys fucking suck.)

Having scripts like this where your personal preferences have a chance to factor is great. There’s more decisions to be made than just counting up all the mistakes and figuring out who had the fewest spelling faux pas.

Happy_Sage

I’m still gonna spend the post talking about why GJM’s release is the best, but I won’t think you’re a complete fuckwit if you choose Aniplex instead.

 

 

Royalty, Nosisms, & Archaic Japanese Pronouns

Aniplex
Spoiler:

The Royal We

tl;dr: Monarchs have at times represented themselves with plural pronouns. The logic is they’re representing the state, divine will, the institution of monarchy itself, etc., so when they speak, it’s about more than just themselves. Arrogant shit, but I can dig it. Hella simple represent, even. Just switch accordingly in a regular sentence:

  • I -> We
  • My -> Our
  • Mine -> Ours

From a lazy look at Google, there appears to be some confusion around whether you capitalize the pronoun or not. And there aren’t exactly a lot of current-day examples to reference, ever since the Americans and Communists killed off all the filthy royals in the world.

I quite enjoyed the Japanese adaptation.

For my part, I don’t consider the use of the Royal We valid unless the pronouns are capitalized. Let the smug be seen for what it is.

Take these two sentences, in which Queen Anne of the Scots volunteers to go on a Taco Bell run for the group despite having a BAC that renders her legally dead:

  1. “We are going out in Our car. And if We hit anyone, We can simply claim diplomatic immunity. Fuck the police, and especially that bitch Kamala Harris.”
  2. “We are going out in our car. And if we hit anyone, we can simply claim diplomatic immunity. We must note, however, that we respect all police officers, as they are fundamentally good people doing good work.”

Which sounds better?

Side Note: I don’t give a single fuck about Taco Bell’s recent menu changes. The potatoes sucked, the Mexican pizza sucked, and the 7-layer burrito sucked. Everything else can burn as long as I can still get my chalupas and cheesy gordita crunches.

 

Nosisms

A nosism is basically the Royal We, but for normies and schizos. The wikipedia article is shit, but it should give you some idea of what’s going on.

(Really only including this section for completion’s sake, since it doesn’t come up in the scripts.)

 

Warera

Warera is an old Japanese pronoun that has been exclusively coopted by smug lolis. It’s far closer to the Royal We than a simple nosism. As such, I would expect any translation to take this into account and capitalize their fucking shit. Please.

 

The Royal Me/He/She

GJM

Is this a thing? My Sagey senses ain’t tingling, so I’m inclined to believe it’s legit. Either way, this is an elegant alternative to the awkwardness of having We/Our/Ours in every sentence the loli speaks.

Just familiar enough for comfort, and just odd enough to demand attention. I appreciate that GJM chose to take this route, and it factors in significantly as to why I prefer their version over Aniplex’s or AnonAlliance’s.

 

 

Release Differences

Spoiler:

Honorifics

Anons-Alliance has honorifics… sometimes. Aniplex & GJM either avoid or translate them, depending on the situation.

  • Aniplex: Odin; Ms. Sato

  • AnonsAlliance: Odin-sama; Satou/Satou-san (they accidentally skip a bunch of honorifics cuz they’re stupid)

  • GJM: Lady Odin; Satou

I prefer honorifics in most anime subtitles. The context they provide is helpful to understanding relationships, and avoiding them can make certain scenes appear quite weird.

It’s a pretty common scenario where one character will have been using an honorific with someone, and then they drop it, showing that they feel a lot closer to that person than before. This is often commented on and becomes :a moment:. There ain’t an easy way to handle that if you’re skipping honorifics, apart from awkwardly brushing over it and hoping it doesn’t happen again. (TL Note: It will.)

When series are set in western locations with western characters, then yes, feel free to drop the honorifics. But in a romcomdram set in Japan? I’m with AnonsAlliance on this one.

 

Handling the Goddess’s Speech Patterns

Hina’s language is super haughty and fucking weird. You don’t need a Japanese degree to understand that; you just need fucking ears.

Aniplex chooses to highlight this as much as possible. AnonsAlliance minimizes it as much as possible. And GJM’s bed is just right. No particular screens needed here; just keep your eyes open during the review.

If one of these approaches really doesn’t sit well with you for whatever reason, you should factor that in highly when determining which release to view.

This girl speaks a lot.

 

Chuuni

I don’t know if there’s a best practice for handling the concept of chuuni/chuunibyou, but you gotta shoot your shot. Brushing over it, as GJM does, is lazy and cowardly. It also doesn’t even make any sense.

  • Aniplex: middle school

  • AnonsAlliance: chuuni

  • GJM: that

GJM, do something like this for the batch; it’d hit a lot nicer:

>”Oh, she’s going through a phase.”

>”I’m not lost, and it is not a phase!”

As-is, I’m most partial to AnonsAlliance’s take. They would have been a contender for the best release if only they had someone on staff who speaks English…

 

 

Versus Mode

Spoiler:

Transliteral

Aniplex hewed a lot closer to translating words, whereas GJM focused on translating what the words meant.

Aniplex’s line here makes some sense. You get that she has fond memories of the past.

But a day can’t exactly sparkle brilliantly, right? This is a bit… off.

GJM, however, got right to the heart of it:

Fantastic.

 

Simple Steps

Take this sequence from Aniplex’s version:

Confusing af. There are two ways you could read this:

  1. Smug Loli is asking who he is (“The question you have to answer is, ‘Who are you?'”)
  2. Smug Loli is “reading his mind” and knows he wants to ask who she is (“The question you are wanting to ask is, ‘Who are you?'”)

 

This is how GJM handled it:

Crystal fucking clear. Didn’t need a single follow-up to know how to interpret the line. This is how you do it.

 

No Comprehension

It is very clear while going through these releases that the folks behind AnonsAlliance do not understand English very well.

The script is riffing off the concept of a convenience store. AnonsAlliance straight up ruined the line.

GJM had “This convenience store is in a place befitting its title.”

 

Have an ED for a bad show while I’m on the subject:

 

 

Aniplex

Script

Hate Aniplex all you want, but this release won’t be a bullet on your PowerPoint slide.

Spoiler:

…ye? Look, this isn’t wrong, but sometimes Aniplex’s version gets a bit much.

If you don’t much care about the style of translation, this release objectively has the fewest blatant English errors.

 

Typesetting / Karaoke

You can’t expect good typesetting from an official release, but you should come in with expectations about having the signs translated. And you know what, Aniplex delivered.

Spoiler:

This is more than you’d expect from Funi garbage. The staff member responsible for getting this much in – despite corporate guidance demanding conformity to mediocrity – deserves kudos. They’ll probably be fired.

 

 

AnonsAlliance

Script

:/

Spoiler:

The styling is miserable, and they can’t even figure out how to /quotation.

No, you retards. You use an em dash to indicate when a speaker is cut-off. Commas are a no-go.

it -> them

what -> who

Aniplex

AnonsAlliance

I can’t stop laughing at how they edited this.

For the non-native readers: ‘twould = “it would”, not “that would”

Aniplex

AnonsAlliance

It’s hard for me to comprehend just how fucking dull someone would have to be in order to read “art” as “aren’t”.

Why can’t these people fansub in their own language and stop ruining mine? If this is revenge for imperialism, redirect your anger inward. It’s not my ancestors’ fault yours were bitches.

Fuck off a cliff and die.

 

Typesetting / Karaoke

AnonsAlliance stripped most of the typesetting that was in the Aniplex release, which was certainly… a choice.

Spoiler:

This is all they bothered with. Pathetic. Keep in mind this whole release was an Aniplex edit, so they had access to all the fucking translations Aniplex already made.

 

 

GJM

Script

Your QC report is here.

Spoiler:

A policeman wouldn’t “discover” her parents; they’d find them. Kids aren’t born of ancient ruins (in most cases).

smitten -> smote

Smote is for divine retribution; smitten is for love.*

Based on the comments in this post, I am willing to accept that GJM may technically be correct with their use of “smitten” here. Personally, I associate the word far too much with the concept of love for me to accept its use in the sense of divine punishment.

My preference would be to avoid potential confusion by dropping “smitten” from the line and giving it a rewrite, and I’ll stick by that critique. However, if you as a viewer take no issue with it, then great. More power to ya.

*See comments for discussion: https://www.crymore.net/2020/10/17/subtitle-comparison-aniplex-vs-anonsalliance-vs-gjm-kamisama-ni-natta-hi-episode-01/#comment-471037

I am not entirely certain whether this line is technically wrong or not, but something feels off. You can be on close terms with someone (an uncommon phrase, but not entirely unheard of) and you can be on friendly terms with someone (a very common phrase, but less relevant to this particular situation), but “close friendly terms”? Never heard that. I’d drop “friendly” here.

If you want to double down anyway, “close, friendly” would make for a better line.

You don’t enlist at something; you enlist in it. Also, enlistment is almost exclusively tied to military organizations. For something like a baseball club, you would join it.

 

Typesetting / Karaoke

This is it, chief.

Spoiler:

If I hadn’t already spent the past two hours jerking myself raw to Vtuber highlight clips, this would have truly done it for me.

 

 

Best Release

In clarity, tone, and presentation, GJM hits the notes a lot better than Aniplex or AnonsAlliance did. Aniplex is a viable alternative if you prefer that translation style. AnonsAlliance is… not worthy of consideration.

As for the series itself? I like it. I’m pretty high on shows in general when they first start out, because I prefer to believe in their potential. We’ll have to see how things play out, but I’m pretty optimistic we’re gonna see some dead kids soon.

 

Bonus Thoughts:

One thing I enjoyed during Odin’s I Am a Cat recitation was that both Aniplex and GJM used the exact phrasing of the popular Yasotaro Morri translation. I dig it. Little details like this show there was actual thought put into these releases.

(AnonsAlliance didn’t mess with Aniplex’s version, but I’m pretty sure that was more due to apathy than out of respect or understanding.)

30 thoughts on “Subtitle Comparison: [Aniplex vs. AnonsAlliance vs. GJM] Kamisama ni Natta Hi (Episode 01)”

  1. …What? “Smitten” is the past participle of “smite,” and “smote” is the past tense. Obviously we need a past participle in this construction (e.g. “You would be eaten”). The fact that “smitten” has also come to be an adjective with romantic connotations is irrelevant here, particularly if the character is meant to be using archaic language.

    (Yes, it’s true that it’s technically possible for “smote” to be used as a past participle of “smite,” but it’s quite rare and there is absolutely no reason to prefer it in this case. You can read an entire damn essay about it if you look up “smite” on Merriam-Webster.)

    Reply
    • https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/smitten

      In summary, we’ll close with a short guide to the 21st century forms of smite:

      You plan on inflicting dire and retributive punishment on someone: “I will smite you.”

      A man has inflicted dire and retributive punishment on you: “He smote me.”

      You are in love (or you have experienced a plague of frogs): “I have been smitten.”

      Reply
      • Do you see the “you have experienced a plague of frogs” right there in those parentheses? That’s the example of “being smitten” as “receiving divine punishment,” which is the exact sense in which the subtitles are using it. Did you mean to agree with me?

        Reply
          • Thanks—I’m cool with the note in the text, which is appropriately academic.

            I still want to know, though: do you really think that the sentence, “For his role in torching D_S’s house, the typesetter was smitten by the gods with testicular boils” is incorrect? It’s simply a rearranged passive version of, “The gods smote the typesetter with testicular boils for his role in torching D_S’s house.” Sure, stylistically speaking, active sentences are usually preferred, but I don’t see anything wrong with “smitten” as a participle. The verb most commonly conjugates as smite, smote, smitten.

            Reply
            • Arranging things that way… Fair. I’ll take 90% of an L here. Smitten has too much baggage around it for me to be fully comfortable with its use in a release that is not nearly as anachronistic as the source seems to be. I do not like the use of the word here, but it’s my bad for conveying my distaste as irrefutable fact.

              So, gimme a sec, I’m going to adjust my commentary. We’ll slot this as one of my pet peeves, and that should sort it.

              Reply
              • Thanks again. Although my sympathies tend to lie with the editor because I can understand exactly the thought process that led to the line, and can even imagine writing it myself, I acknowledge that it represents a failure of editorial imagination insofar as its writer failed to predict how it might come across on first reading.

                However, this may be related to one of my pet peeves, which is being told that I can’t use words to mean what they mean just because they have different connotations in other contexts. For example, I regularly use “ejaculate” to mean “to utter suddenly and briefly” because that is the primary definition listed in dictionaries and the word has a satisfying, full-bodied mouthfeel that “exclaim” just can’t replicate. You may now commence the mockery.

                Reply
  2. No problem D_S, I didn’t want the type-setters beating you to death in an autistic fit of rage.

    I’m really surprised Aniplex even had the brain-power to pump out basic English for this release, seems they’ve got someone with an IQ above room temperature to do the subs this time.
    GJM winning isn’t exactly a surprise, but it was quite nice to see Aniplex stepping up their game. Let’s hope GJM don’t put this show in stalled hell.

    You should review Commies Subs for Ikebukuro West Gate Park, as from what I’ve seen – they’re god awful.

    If you’d prefer not to have a brain aneurysm, GJM is doing a collab with Kaleido, a much newer fansubbing group established in 2018 (by an encoder who doesn’t speak Japanese lol.) So you’d be able to bully some new-gen fansubbers.
    The show in question that they’re doing is Majo no Tabitabi.

    Reply
    • Kaleido is even more extreme than commie with source culture washing.
      I tried thier Uzaki subs and I couldn’t finish the first episode. Even Funi subs weren’t that bad.

      Reply
  3. I would be glad if a group with AnonsAlliance’s premises, but actually competent in both languages would exist and be active.
    I mean really, I watch anime and consume Japanese entertainment, because of its culture quirks too.
    I don’t know many retards are so fucking scared of using popular popcultural terms like chuuni in this case (or personality types, moe etc) or honorifics. This is irrational.
    Thier only argument is “it doesn’t exist in English”, but who cares about it in the first place? I guess they aren’t using words like sushi, katana or tsunami on daily basis then?
    I always thought that FANsubs are made by FAN for FANS, so it’s only natural for fansubs to be a lot closer to actual source culture and dialogue than official trash.
    At least this is how it worked in my country for years.
    And the worst thing of this is that even if group like this is trying to do something, thay are always bashed and insulted by the biggest retards that I’ve ever seen (nyaa “community”).

    Ps
    As an ESL, I don’t find these grammar mistakes problematic at all, because everything is perfectly understandable, but I get that it can be problematic for native speakers.

    Reply
    • > I always thought that FANsubs are made by FAN for FANS, so it’s only natural for fansubs to be a lot closer to actual source culture and dialogue than official trash.

      This doesn’t make sense. You’re right in saying that fansubs are made by fans, but if said fans prefer localized subs, why would they intentionally do unlocalized subs just to please someone else? The second part also isn’t correct, fansubs aren’t “made for fans”; they’re just made by fans, for themselves and people with similar preferences.

      And it’s pretty obvious which one people prefer anyway, just compare downloads on any group which does unlocalized subs VS a group which does localized subs. Lets take Kaleido’s newest upload, which is around 6 days old atm, and compare it to Nii-sama’s most recent upload (7 days). Nii-sama is at 275 downloads, and this is a pretty old and fairly (in)famous group. Kaleido is at 1700 downloads. You can also try comparing GJM’s releases to the edited-GJM releases, which is basically the same as GJM but unlocalized. It’s usually got a tenth of the downloads which GJM gets. The fact is that most “fans” prefer localized subs, and most fansubbers too, so there’s really not much reason for someone to go out of their way to include honorifics and the likes.

      > a group with AnonsAlliance’s premises, but actually competent in both languages would exist and be active.

      The pattern here is pretty clear. The only groups which do unlocalized subs are the ones which don’t have any competent fansubbers. They’re just fans trying to “fansub”. Anyone who’s actually competent in English (or both languages) leans towards localized subs. You’ll be hard pressed to find good TL’ers or Editors who would keep honorifics and unlocalized words, since it’s hard to justify keeping non-English words in an English translation.

      (For the record, I’m no Subtitle-Nazi who nukes every honorific they see, but shit like this: https://files.catbox.moe/3t1gr7.jpg makes my eyes burn.)

      Reply
      • >And it’s pretty obvious which one people prefer anyway, just compare downloads on any group which does unlocalized subs VS a group which does localized subs.

        This is simply not true, I bet if they would leave in the honorifics and didn’t do the “culture washing” they would still have the same DLs, as they had at the begging of their existence (I’m talking about GJM).

        And if you mentioned Nii-sama, you probably know how trashed they were by-you-know-who since the very beginning (and yes, their timing and typesetting was atrocious in their first releases, but it’s not like anyone know how to do something properly when he’s starting though, so toxic atmosphere on nyaa done by “elite” members there is just atrocious – it always was) and they still are (to the point that some retards are literally making up non-existing problems and trying to force their “arguments” on all people which is just pathetic), so most people that aren’t following the fansub scene will simply choose to skip their releases because of these comments. And this is really the fact.
        If you wanted to do this kind of comparison, you should have compared Doki with some culturephobic groups.
        And you didn’t mention one thing – Higurashi has pretty decent TL for funi standards, so even more less people are searching for alternatives (in fact, Nii-sama subs are almost identical with cosmetic changes like original name order and highly improved text formatting).

        PS by your logic, official stream rips have always the most downloads, so they are the best releases, right?

        >Anyone who’s actually competent in English (or both languages) leans towards localized subs.
        This is also not true at all. Just look at manga released by Yen Press, Kodansha or Seven Seas (especially Yen Press). They are far away from doing extreme localization like some fansub groups and they still have great sales, so I really don’t believe in their favorite argument (that less localized translations are not suitable for general audience), because people aren’t that stupid.

        >since it’s hard to justify keeping non-English words in an English translation.
        As I said, anime, bonsai, haiku, karaoke, manga, koto, origami, otaku, tycoon, kimono, obi, shushi, katana, karate, judo, sumo, emoji, samurai, tsunami and hundreds other words that were originally Japanese are not English words too. They are loan words for things that are easier to call like this than using long translation for them and losing the meaning. Are you scared of using these words (or any other words from other languages)? What’s the difference between (let’s say) origami and bento? What’s the difference between emoji and moe? What’s the difference between haiku and tsundere? I mean, really. The only difference is that many popcultural words like moe or tsundere are even more impossible to translate than – for example – origami (which literally means folding the paper).

        So, is it really that hard to justify using the same pattern know from other loan words for other words or terms for Japanese-specific things?
        I mean really, think about it because for me it is perfect example of hypocrisy.

        >(For the record, I’m no Subtitle-Nazi who nukes every honorific they see, but shit like this: https://files.catbox.moe/3t1gr7.jpg makes my eyes burn.)
        To be honest, I don’t know why are you so triggered by this. It’s festival name (proper name), translating something like this is retarded (would you force the translation for obon too?). I don’t get, what’s wrong with TL note done once? It’s not like did something as stupid as “keikaku means plan” (which was just a made up meme btw) or started to explain references to other series.

        Honestly, I prefer something like Nii-sama did (and Mori in the past) for this kind of explaination https://files.catbox.moe/7awvna.png , but I don’t really see the problem with explaining what the festival name stands for.

        Reply
        • Yup, I agree with everything you said. And do you know what’s the best part of it?
          Everyone knows these words/terms anyway. It’s nothing but “elite” stroking their ego.

          Imagine if fantasy or sci-fi lovers demanded removing made up words or genre-specific slang, because “it’s too hard for new fans to follow them.”

          Reply
          • Using foreign terms is not the same as using made-up terms at all, because for starters, the made-up term would have to be explained for the audience it was aimed at for it to make any sense. The point of translating is to make sense of a foreign language to your local audience. Littering your subs with foreign words doesn’t aid that, it hinders it. The “elite” remark is pure projection: *you* know the words, therefore *everyone* must. What about someone watching anime for the first time? How would they know what these words meant before watching?

            Reply
            • “because for starters, the made-up term would have to be explained for the audience it was aimed at for it to make any sense”

              Um, no? There’s a lot made up terms in the word of fantasy that are used by various authors and fandom universally. They were (maybe) explained when they were used somewhere for the first time, but it’s not like every book will explain everything.
              Don’t you understand that you need to cross some kind of entry barrier
              no matter which hobby or media you’re starting to consume?

              “What about someone watching anime for the first time? How would they know what these words meant before watching?”
              Jesus, who cares? They will learn from either TL notes (if they exist) or from the internet like anyone else. Many people learned about honorifics and their usage without even checking anything after watching few series (including myself). We aren’t living in medieval era anymore. People have unlimited possibilities of accessing the information now, it’s way easier than 10 or 20 years ago (yet people are more and more dumber from what I see). Why do you think that building even bigger cultural walls is good?
              I think that people that English is not their primary language have much easier to understand it, because they were always much closer to foreign cultures and other countries than US.

              Imagine asking the same question for people that are:
              1) Going fishing for the first time
              2) Going skiing for the first time
              3) Making their first cake
              4) Trying to learn skateboarding
              5) Trying to get into *insert anything you like*
              6) Trying to do *put whatever you like* for the first time

              “How would they know how to do it properly or what some terms in tutorial books mean”

              Reply
              • So you think that watching an anime series is the same as reading a sequel to a fantasy novel without reading the first? Are you serious?

                And crossing some kind of barrier is classic gatekeeping. Why should anime have “entry barriers”? For what reason? How on earth do you think there’s an equivalence between learning a skill and watching something for entertainment?

                And why is it nearly always ESLs who have the big problem with this? They seem far more precious about Japanese quirks appearing in subs than even Japanese people do.

                Reply
                • >And why is it nearly always ESLs who have the big problem with this? They seem far more precious about Japanese quirks appearing in subs than even Japanese people do.

                  Maybe, just maybe because non EOPs are way more open minded about this and way more open/curious for foreign cultures than EOPs by default? Especially American ones (it doesn’t automatically mean that all Americans are like this of course, I’m talking about average Joe)?
                  ESLs have contact with foreign cultures basically since they are born.

                  And no, it’s not just about Japanese stuff, I appreciate “non-culturephobic” (as it was somewhere above) translations of any media (nice word btw, culturephobia).

                  Reply
                  • You say ‘culture’ as if honorifics = culture. Do you consider Mr. and Mrs. a “cultural” feature of English? There’s a reason a lot of professional translators forgo the honorifics when translating from Japanese into English because honorifics are just functional to the Japanese. Yes, they can give extra information about how the speaker views the person they’re speaking to, but there are plenty more natural ways to express that in English without leaving in the Japanese honorifics. And you’d look nuts to a Japanese person leaving in Japanese honorifics in an English translation. It’d just seem weird to them to do that.

                    And look, I’m not saying you’re wrong for liking honorifics or the additional Japanese element to be left in the subs. That’s fine, it’s understandable when watching foreign media that you might want some essence of the original language present, even if it’s not particularly necessary given you also have the audio. But it’s only a preference and people who prefer subtitles that are more natural in English aren’t wrong either. It can make viewing something a lot easier and a lot more entertaining because jokes aren’t falling flat and major plot points aren’t submerged in a sea of half-Japanese, half-English. So treating them as “culturephobic” or lesser fans because of it is ridiculous.

                    If they were really “culturephobic,” they A) wouldn’t be watching anime in the first place and B) definitely wouldn’t be watching subtitled anime.

                    Reply
                  • ESLs aren’t really going to be concerned about having perfect English in their subs, especially when they can understand the Japanese words being used. Slip in a couple advanced Kanji which no one understands or more complex untranslated words and they’ll too rage about not having stuff translated.

                    And this isn’t a blanket statement against ESLs. Find a Japanese native who’s good at English and ask them about their opinions on keeping Japanese words in a translation. You’ll get similar replies.

                    Reply
                • You’re trying way to hard.
                  If I need to be honest, I don’t understand why some of you are so fucking scared of using common words that are known in fandom for decades already. This is just beyond any stupidity scale. Especially that even official manga publishers are using them in thier translations as someone mentioned earlier (well, at least every American publisher except Viz, I’m not talking about retarded publishers in my country)
                  This is making them a lot more fun and enjoyable to consume than forcing shitty translations and dodging “problematic” things like GJM did here.

                  No one here is talking about using Japanese grammar structure or translating every sentence word by word.

                  Just give ma subs like CR for Tonikaku, Iwa kakeru or Guchiusa in this season and I’ll even pay for them.

                  Reply
                  • > I don’t understand why some of you are so fucking scared of using common words that are known in fandom for decades already.

                    Imagine that you’re not an anime fan, decide to get into anime and fire up a fansubbed release, and then the first 5 minutes are filled with random, untranslated words in a language that you have no clue about. That’s the easiest way to kill off potential new viewers.

                    This doesn’t apply to loan words which are prevalent in English, but people can’t seem to differentiate between loan words and straight up untranslated Japanese. I see a lot of people complain about overlocalized subs but if you give the same people trashy manga scanlations they’ll be up in arms because it has untranslated words which they don’t recognize.

                    Reply
                    • “Imagine that you’re not an anime fan, decide to get into anime and fire up a fansubbed release, and then the first 5 minutes are filled with random, untranslated words in a language that you have no clue about. That’s the easiest way to kill off potential new viewers.”

                      Holy shit, this is probably the dumbest pro localization argument I’ve ever seen. I don’t even know where to start.
                      I’m very curious about your age. I feel that my generation and previous ones were so much more open and curious than everything above 2000s and we didn’t have an internet or other sources that we can easily use to check everything we wanted.
                      And nationality doesn’t matter, this is world-wide trend.
                      Back then people really cared about accuracy (and it’s not even just about Japanese popcultural creations). Whole fansub (again, I’m not talking just about anime) scene in my country was a thing because of terrible altered official translations. People literally fought for more faithful and tried to do something right. Now? It’s a big regression.

                      When I’m reading comments like this, I feel really sick.

                      And no, loan words are loan words. All loan words were super alien in the past too. If people in the past had the same mindset like you, you wouldn’t know these words and thier meaning too. All languages in this world are dynamically changing. Please stop spreading this bullshit about something being “prevalent”. It’s just laughable and pretty simple minded.
                      Other people explained it really well already. I have nothing else to add. And yes, you’re literally being scared of it.

                  • Not sure where you get the impression that anyone not using honorifics is “scared” – it’s a choice and they’ve chosen to prioritize understanding in English over pandering to a section of the fanbase who seem to want their subs “Japanese-y.” Some companies have taken a different decision, like Viz and CR, as you mention, because they’re courting the niche fanbase. Companies like Netflix and Amazon I believe court a wider market, so they go the other way. That doesn’t make one approach more “right” than the other; it’s just a different way of doing things. And if you *need* honorifics and things like “Senpai” and “Oniichan” for a translation of a series to be fun, then I’d suggest the issue is with you, not the subs.

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                    • “And if you *need* honorifics and things like “Senpai” and “Oniichan” for a translation of a series to be fun, then I’d suggest the issue is with you, not the subs.”

                      I don’t think that not wanting to feel the dissonance all over again by altered name order, swapped honorifics with names or proper names/popcultural terms with something means that something is wrong with someone. I would say that any open minded person would rather not want to feel the dissonance caused by xenophobic approach to translation which goal is to pander people with super low IQ. No offense.
                      And yes, not localized and not altered translations that are keeping original popculture is always way more fun than something adjusted to your own cultural bubble. I mean, what’s event the point of watching something foreign if you alter it so much that is no different than media in your own country?

                    • Seems to be a lot of samefagging in this chain of replies (the trick is to *not* sound like you’re the same person when you’re agreeing with yourself). No one’s falling for this “other people explained it” bull. The fact you feel the need to pretend you’re a crowd shows how little you think your “explanation” stacks up by itself. And saying you think localization is “xenophobic” shows a lot more about your own openmindedness and IQ than you think it shows about the people who prefer it.

                      Anyway, I don’t think there’s much more to add. You are clearly of a view that literal translations with a smattering of untranslated Japanese is the *only* valid way to sub things, despite giving an inferior experience to a Western viewer than a Japanese person would have viewing the exact same video, and I doubt anything I can say will change that, so I won’t waste any more words on this.

        • I mean, a lot of this is just nonsense trying to defend your personal beliefs on what fansubs should be. How do you square the accusation of “culture washing” when the Japanese are taught to use Western name order and drop honorifics if they move abroad or do business with Westerners? The Chinese even take Western names like Bruce and Jason when they move over here. Are you saying they’re “culture washing” their own culture when they do that? Seems a bizarre thing to assert.

          I don’t think you understand the concept of a loanword. It’s usually taken into the language when it describes something specific that isn’t already in the language. A haiku, for instance, is a very specific type of poem which, because of its simplistic rules, has become popular outside of Japan. We haven’t imported other similar words like Tanka or Renga because those forms haven’t become popular and require more explanation, meaning you can’t just use the word and expect an audience to understand what it means. This would likely be localized to ‘poem’ in most instances. Similarly, a lot of the words you list as loanwords are used in the context that they *only* refer to things of Japanese origin – for example, anime refers specifically to Japanese animation and a kimono is a specific type of Japanese clothing. Things like bento and tsundere are not specifically Japanese concepts and therefore we don’t need them as loanwords to get the meaning of them across. After all, it’s not just the Japanese who put lunch in a box so they can carry it around with them.

          I realize some people do like TL notes and that’s a perfectly fine position to hold. A lot of people also find them distracting and unnecessary, which again, is equally valid. Neither one is more right than the other, it’s personal preference – though I would say that, if you can succinctly describe what something is without using the word for it and TL noting it, that’s usually preferable. After all, most media outlets would call Diwali “The Festival of Light” because it describes what it actually is whereas Diwali only means something to people who already know about it. Granted, in the news or in newspapers, they’d probably put “Diwali, the Festival of Light” but with fansubbing being a visual medium, you have to take things like screen clutter, line length and CPS into account – all of which are generally more important than keeping the original word, because if things get hard to read, it doesn’t really make a difference what you put in the subs because no one can read them.

          And there are much better ways to learn about Japanese culture than through anime. That’s like learning about American culture by watching The Simpsons. Much better ways to learn about Japanese culture if you’re really interested in it beyond whether someone uses -kun, -chan or -san with your name. Read a book. Watch a documentary. Using anime as anything but entertainment gives you a very skewed version of what Japanese life, culture and the language is actually like.

          Reply
  4. “But a day can’t exactly sparkle brilliantly”
    I am no expert, but this may just be that Key-tier very subtle literal foreshadowing they stuff into their first episodes. So, knowing Key, literal translations are the way to go.
    >kumamiko
    >bad
    I forgive you for your insolence.

    Reply

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