[Commie]’s Oregairu Zoku SNAFU

Fansub Review, Spring 2015 — By Dark_Sage on June 7, 2015 4:06 pm

This post was written by Dark_Sage. He is Dark_Sage.

Snort rat poison, Commie devs. These dubtitles wouldn’t even fit in a Sentai release.

Note that this is not a review in the standard sense of the term. But while there will be no “final score”, there will definitely be judgment. Just like I’ll be judging the fuck out of you if you can’t get off to the best scene in the series:

You can take a few minutes to recover before continuing on with the rest of the post. I’ll understand.

Visuals

OP/ED.

Typesetting.

Styling/line management.

Blurry, broken, or missing signs… 1-minute-and-done-with-it karaoke… The visuals are managed by meatsacks too prideless or incompetent to even hit the lofty goal of mediocrity.

Yet, seemingly unable to understand their incompetence, Commie tries to make the show about them at every chance.

[Commie] Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru. Zoku - My Teenage RomCom SNAFU TOO! - 03 [57627F30].mkv_snapshot_05.05

“Check out what we can do with the subs. Aren’t we wacky and original?”

More than being a pathetic cry for attention– Oh wait, I guess that’s all this really is. Let’s move on~

Dialogue

For the script, I could go into all the mistakes Commie made…

the conversations formed in a vacuum…

and the pure nonsense infesting every corner of their scripts…

…but I’m not going to. Why bother when there’s enough shitty localization attempts here to make even 4Kids blush?

“Bento are lunch boxes, silly.”

As you can expect from any Commie-branded release, all cultural nuance is lost in the grinder of dictionary translations.

Thanks to subs crafted with the deftness of a Capcom translator, you’d be forgiven for asking what fucking country the show’s supposed to be taking place in on a scene-by-scene basis.

The jokes don’t make sense.

This particular attempt at comedy invokes an American car insurance company called GEICO (again, what country is this?). But the line Commie crafted has all the flow of a dam — even if you threw the line into the most corporate sitcom around, the fucking laugh track itself would have enough sentience to refuse to play.

It doesn’t need to make sense as long as the editor thinks it’s funny.

Comedy apparently does not come easy to people who are typically the butt of jokes.

Like, epic for the win!

Without regard for characterization that makes sense, Commie makes every character sound like a fucking valley girl.

And those that don’t get the dumb-blonde treatment fare even worse.

Get it? It’s funny because :religion:

Droppin’ consonants like the editor dropped outta middle school.

Oh wait, it gets dumber? They can’t even fucking stick to one manner of speech for their characters? Well, boy howdy desu.

"This must be how the gangsters my mom taught me about talk!"

“This must be how the gangsters my mom told me about talk!”

The stupidity doesn’t stop there.

If you thought that was enough, you’re probably right, but the Commie devs can’t hear you all the way up their own asses.

Deciding their translation of “Yahello” into “Yo, ‘sup” wasn’t dumb enough, Commie turns fujo-chan’s opening statement into… whatever the fuck this is.

Moshi mosh~

As for how Iroha fared under Commie’s banner? RIP.

Killing characters like GRRM. That’s the Commie way~

This evil misogyny.

While Commie’s dialogue here doesn’t particularly bother me (as if I’d ever be so pathetic as to join the ranks of the perpetually offended), I’m sure some of you out there are grinding your teeth already.

Considering the content of their site, it’s a wonder they didn’t throw racism into the mix. So there’s the first positive thing I can say about their release, at least!

Trigger warning: put in those retainers.

And if you’re expecting anything different from, say, Commie’s cadet branch, Vivid…

…it’s classlessness all the way down. Guess there’s more to these things than just names~

Recommendation sans commendation.

While this would be a great chance for me to point to Crunchyroll’s release and say “Hey, that option over there is better in every possible way.” I can’t. The Crunchy dialogue often drags the show down at the most inopportune points.

Like, um, what?

However, when faced with the option of a release where any scene could be entirely ruined by some 30-year-old virgin, or a passable-yet-dull script, I’ll go with the latter every time. I want to watch Yahari, not some nobody’s attempt at rifftrax.

[Commie] Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru. Zoku - My Teenage RomCom SNAFU TOO! - 10 [B39C4280].mkv_snapshot_09.46

The sad part is you can’t even say that about Commie’s attempt here.

Unequivocally, and unemotionally, I recommend you go with HorribleSubs/Crunchyroll for Oregairu Zoku. You deserve better than Commie.

Tags: Commie, Fansub Review, Oregairu, Spring 2015, Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Come wa Machigatteiru. Zoku

315 Comments

duplex says:

June 7, 2015 at 4:11 pm

first

duplex says:

June 17, 2015 at 9:50 pm

300 get

HyakuPercent says:

June 18, 2015 at 12:00 am

duplex, please.

Kristen says:

June 7, 2015 at 4:15 pm

inb4 Xythar’s butthurt tweet

ryo-kun says:

June 12, 2015 at 5:49 am

Xythar’s a total shit

Anon says:

June 7, 2015 at 4:22 pm

What about the translation errors in the CR script?

Dark_Sage says:

June 7, 2015 at 4:34 pm

The Crunchyroll subs have issues, as I already stated in the post. But I’ve seen the vast majority of Yahari so far with CR and they didn’t ruin the show to the point where I’d equate their release with the Commie experience.

Tazik says:

July 30, 2015 at 4:06 pm

What of FFF?

anon says:

June 7, 2015 at 5:31 pm

Yeah, cause Futsuu and Spyro are sooo much more trustworthy.

(and who knows, maybe the CR translator was actually right and the fan translators were wrong the whole time)

addityo says:

June 7, 2015 at 8:20 pm

>spyro

Who?

CoffeeFlux says:

June 7, 2015 at 8:31 pm

the guy translating the lns
i think his blog is called kyakka

though more than just those two that have criticized cr, it’s pretty clear that the tl errors are real

anon says:

June 7, 2015 at 8:51 pm

[citation needed]

Gary says:

June 8, 2015 at 1:06 pm

Pics or it didn’t happen.
I don’t care anyway.

FalseDawn says:

June 7, 2015 at 4:39 pm

Not sure I agree on the advocacy of keeping kotatsu and bento untranslated – I don’t think that’s really indicative of anything “cultural”, just that some editors/groups prefer to translate rather than leave translatable Japanese words untranslated. We are, after all, subbing for an English-speaking audience, not a Japanese one.

Obviously, different tls/editors have different opinions on it, but I wouldn’t class it as a slam dunk like some of the other things you’ve pointed out in this release.

Kristen says:

June 7, 2015 at 5:18 pm

There actually is a big difference between translating bento and translating kotatsu.
A bento is commonly translated to be “boxed lunch”. If you look online for “boxed lunch” in google, you will see results similar to what is being describe. Food in a box. Naturally, it’s not Japanese food and doesn’t have the same proportions of rice, but it’s still the same connotation. It exists and is relateable to Americans.
With kotatsu, go into google and search for “heated table”. When looking for it, it either says “kotatsu – Japanese heated table” (using kotatsu as a loanword), or it shows something else like a heated massage table or a food warming table.

Now, if Commie doesn’t want to use Kotatsu, that’s fine. They can look as foolish as Underwater translating “manga” to “comic books” if they want. But I would probably just say “under the table” if I was localizing it. They’re already getting rid of meanings for the sake of their “localization” in so many other places, what’s this one going to hurt?

FalseDawn says:

June 7, 2015 at 6:36 pm

It’s not really foolish, it’s just a different way of doing things. Technically, manga and kotatsu aren’t official loanwords (afaik they’ve not made it into any dictionary), so you’re basing your opinion on the fact that certain common words are accepted untranslated in this niche. However, some translators/editors would rather translate everything into English rather than leave certain terms untranslated (I myself err towards that and so have plenty of editors down the years).

A heated table is an acceptable translation for kotatsu and it really doesn’t lose any cultural significance (it’s a table with a heater) by being translated.

QQwerty says:

June 7, 2015 at 6:40 pm

The time when Underwater translated “katana” into “longsword”, however…

FalseDawn says:

June 7, 2015 at 7:16 pm

Yes, that was dumb. No arguments there.

Abunja says:

June 8, 2015 at 8:55 am

While I’m not that knowledgeable in weaponry, I think choosing ‘longsword’ isn’t a bad choice since katana should be wield by both hands which is typical for a longsword.

LotusGG says:

June 8, 2015 at 9:04 am

Being long doesn’t make Katana longsword. Katana cuts from one side only, while longswords tend to cut from both sides. Also, katanas are built of many parts, softer parts mixed with harder parts for it to not break and to be lightweight and shit.
Localization is a bad idea, japan will never become ‘murica.

Abunja says:

June 8, 2015 at 9:42 am

Hmm, I see. So in a sense, ‘blade’ would be a better fit, right? Well, I do also noticed that katanas are at times wielded by one hand. So, you’re right that it gives off an idea of it being lightweight contrary to that of a traditional English longsword. Though, localization isn’t that bad of an idea unless it fails to make the idea come across.

Dark_Sage says:

June 8, 2015 at 10:32 am

No it wouldn’t, because “katana” is a commonly understood word in the English language. “blade” is not even close. I don’t know what third-world shithole you’re from, but I assume they play soccer there, so it’d be like referring to Ronaldo as “that one guy who kicks balls sometimes”.

Translation is more complex than picking out words from Language->Language dictionaries and calling it a day, which is something neither you nor Commie have apparently ever grasped.

Abunja says:

June 8, 2015 at 5:22 pm

Commonly understood, yes. Because we are talking anime here and chances are we are not new to this. But for first time viewers, it might take 2 or 3 times for their sense to kick in that a katana is a sword. Well, I do admit that blade reminds me of something lightweight used to hack-and-slash, so my bad. Hell, even I can do that with a machete too. ;)

With no close English alternative, I don’t find it jarring if something left untranslated since I can even do research afterwards but I can’t tell that it is the same for everyone.

Kristen says:

June 8, 2015 at 5:34 pm

I knew what a Katana was when I was 12 years old. I started watching anime at age 16.

FalseDawn says:

June 8, 2015 at 5:53 pm

Katana is no less understandable than machete. It’s a basic sword type, like the sabre or rapier. It has no relation to anime at all.

LotusGG says:

June 8, 2015 at 8:40 pm

Katana is made of many parts that come together to form a blade, it’s not as simple as a scrap of grinded metal that is a machete.
And also, katanas are not lightweight. A real katana would weight about 20kg or more. They swap between soft/hard/heavy/light pieces for it to not weight 50kg and become unwieldable. Katana is a unique weapon that is not made of one single part, and even thinking about localizing it is a bad idea.

I believe there’s better schemes to show how a katana is made but I’m lazy to search for it atm: http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/saw/images/6/64/Katana_core_diagram.png/revision/latest?cb=20060527190926

qq says:

June 8, 2015 at 9:34 pm

‘With no close English alternative’
Katana is in every respected English dictionary printed since the 20th century— it *is* an English word. ‘Katana’ is about as ubiquitous as ‘sushi’ and ‘samurai’, and while you could approximate them to ‘fish on rice slab’ and ‘Japanese warrior’, they are readily understood by English speakers to the point that avoidance of said words would lead to more confusion than usage.

I swear, the knee-jerk anti-Wap crowd desperate to appear above all the Japanophilia is frankly more pathetic than those they ridicule. Next Commie will change those confusing foreign names, like Shinji, into something more palatable, like Sean.

Abunja says:

June 9, 2015 at 8:02 am

I learned katana was a Japanese sword on an RPG game. Commonly understood, I mean, because we ourselves know how to define it. FD is right that it has nothing to do to anime, I just used it as a basis where we could at least be exposed to the word. Though, I do admit that I haven’t researched beforehand if it’s an official loanword like what qq’s stated above. About the machete, I used it to validate further D_S’s remark that blade is a dull comparison. Over all, thank you guys for sharing your thoughts.

PS. No worries, qq. Not offended here even a bit.

RalphZiggy says:

June 25, 2015 at 8:22 pm

LotusGG, that’s silly, a “real” katana weighs 1.25 to 1.5 kg, that’s all. Strangely enough, the weight range of average medieval swords go from that low end to about 2.5 kg on average. I have some of each, all could be wielded one-handed in a pinch.

LotusGG says:

June 25, 2015 at 10:24 pm

I actually own a katana that wheighs around 20kg. Precisely, 18.5kg. Can only wield it two-handed.

qq says:

June 26, 2015 at 3:06 am

I hate to break it to you, LotusGG, but RalphZiggy is more or less correct (the weight can vary a tad more according to my *expert* research, but certainly not even up to 2kg). What you own is most certainly not a katana (a light sword able to be wielded in one hand), but some other kind of sword.

qq says:

June 26, 2015 at 3:47 am

By the way, if you were serious about the 18.5kg, a little more research and calculation showed that even the largest swords used in battle would be almost 3x lighter if they were made solely of depleted uranium. Either that’s one huge fucking sword, a huge fuck-up in measurement or a fucking terrible lie.

LotusGG says:

June 26, 2015 at 11:22 am

Yeah, It’s way longer than the usual and made of black steel. It’s old as fuck tho.

qq says:

June 8, 2015 at 11:25 pm

Reading that back, that second sentence sounds really douchey if read as addressed to Abunja :P
Apologies for any offence caused.

qq says:

June 8, 2015 at 11:26 pm

*paragraph
Man, I’m out of it today.

anon says:

June 13, 2015 at 9:03 am

You got to appreciate the mental gymnastics that goes into each of his comments

CoffeeFlux says:

June 8, 2015 at 12:42 pm

yeah, localization is the worst
i, too, hate non-romaji subs

Kristen says:

June 8, 2015 at 1:08 pm

Sarcasm and exaggeration are excellent argument tools.

CoffeeFlux says:

June 8, 2015 at 1:12 pm

i’m not interested in arguing

i’m just laughing at people stupid enough to stand on their anti-commie principles despite how truly awful cr’s oregairu release actually is

FalseDawn says:

June 8, 2015 at 3:46 pm

>anti-commie principles

I thought we were discussing a dodgy Underwater localisation? Also, just because one release is bad, that doesn’t make the other one automatically good. They can be equally shit.

CoffeeFlux says:

June 8, 2015 at 3:57 pm

uh, i was talking about “Localization is a bad idea, japan will never become ‘murica.”

qq says:

June 8, 2015 at 11:21 pm

If you’re too thick to fully grasp the discussion at hand, don’t butt in with a dismissive snark your friends were oh-so-clever to come up with.

QQwerty says:

June 8, 2015 at 4:36 pm

Come on, CoffeeFlux, don’t just repeat one of herkz’s tweets basically word for word a few weeks after him. If you have a valid argument, put it out here rather than just being the mouthpiece of one of the higher ups.

I know you’re better than that, mate.

CoffeeFlux says:

June 8, 2015 at 4:39 pm

when did herkz recently tweet that
it’s a long-running joke, sooo

not that i’m going to try to have a legitimate discussion on a baitpost
i’ll save that for actual reviews

Googol says:

June 8, 2015 at 1:47 pm

Localising is bad only when the contextual meaning of a word becomes too broad to understand when compared to the original Japanese one. In the case of “katana”, it was indeed a bad choice to use “longsword”.

Other than that, in general it’s the best approach to make sure you translate as much as possible without compromising accuracy.

Melquiades says:

June 13, 2015 at 12:20 pm

Finally a sane statement. o/

Notathrowaway says:

June 16, 2015 at 1:24 am

>A real katana would weight about 20kg or more.

Rofl

Kristen says:

June 7, 2015 at 7:06 pm

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/manga

Kotatsu isn’t an official loanword though. It’s sort of like one that could eventually make it into the books if it gets further use in America, such as sushi, karate, umami, and ramen. However, it is much more commonly used in English speaking to talk about the object as “kotatsu” than “heated table”.

But honestly, my opinion is that Commie butchers the Japanese culture so much in the first place, something like “table” instead of “heated table” shouldn’t matter.

FalseDawn says:

June 7, 2015 at 7:22 pm

Oh, apparently manga has made it into the dictionary. Usually dictionaries are slow to catch up with common parlance. I wouldn’t necessarily mark comics as wrong though – it’s not as accurate as using the Japanese word, but it’s basically the same thing (it’s just the American connotation is that comics are for kids).

You do lose a lot of meaning from only calling it a table instead of a heated table though. Especially as the whole point of it is that it’s heated.

Kiraly says:

June 8, 2015 at 6:41 pm

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bento
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/kotatsu

Kiraly says:

June 8, 2015 at 6:43 pm

Bento is also in the dictionary:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bento

FalseDawn says:

June 12, 2015 at 11:51 am

Yeah, I wouldn’t go using that particular dictionary as a source. It lists common usage terms, rather than ones that are accepted as part of the English language.

Though amusingly, I did look into bento and it’s now in the Oxford dictionary (or the online version at least) as well as http://www.dictionary.com which is my usual go-to. I’d still contest that it’s not really a word you’d hear outside of a Japanese setting (ie it hasn’t been adopted like karate and karaoke), but if an individual editor did decide to use bento over lunchbox, they do have dictionaries backing them up.

Kotatsu isn’t in either, however.

coldhell says:

June 8, 2015 at 3:17 am

So “manga” =/= “comics”
but “shounen manga” = “teenage comics”
hypocrisy at its finest…

Kristen says:

June 8, 2015 at 7:22 am

That was UTW’s translation.

Domo says:

June 8, 2015 at 6:13 am

Yeah idk. I have this japanese manga and the cover has “Jump Comics” printed on it…

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 10:51 am

Japan also considers Frozen anime, so…

Anonymous says:

June 7, 2015 at 5:02 pm

Epic review! Gonna link this to my bros at /a/ and Reddit who hate Commie’s SNAFU too.

duplex says:

June 7, 2015 at 5:12 pm

I’m sure he will enjoy it.

Dark_Sage says:

June 7, 2015 at 5:43 pm

Don’t forget to rate and subscribe!

Kristen says:

June 7, 2015 at 5:09 pm

>Review Posting Time: 1 hour 2 minutes ago
>herkz tweets about it: 15 minutes ago

You’re popular enough, D_S, to be visited by people who claim to not even care about your site every 47 minutes. :)

duplex says:

June 7, 2015 at 5:17 pm

Yeah, they are definitely checking the site constantly, not clicking links shared by other people or some other stupid bullshit that no one on the Internet does.

Kristen says:

June 7, 2015 at 5:22 pm

I-I-It’s not like I’m checking this site regularly or anything! I just happened to be linked to it. BAAAAKA! *Blushes and turns face away to try and hide it*

TotallyNotGovna says:

June 7, 2015 at 5:34 pm

It’s not like I’m trying to make shit subs. You guys just troll me all the time so I never have the opportunity to make good releases.

duplex says:

June 7, 2015 at 5:43 pm

Damn, you caught me. I actually check regularly in case D_S posts his yearly fansub review.

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 10:52 am

Thanks for the hits. <3

Hairy says:

June 8, 2015 at 1:42 am

It’s not like there are these things called RSS feeds.

qq says:

June 11, 2015 at 11:35 pm

It is, if anything, more fervid that you would actually automate the process of checking the comments,in my view. I definitely understand for posts, but I’m not so invested in these comments that I would want instantaneous updates on them.

And despite chortling with his chucklefuck buddies about how this post’s comments have been active for a few days now (hardly shocking considering how sparse these reviews are), if we counted every time he screenshotted a comment and posted a smarmy yet utterly vacuous reply to it, he’s probably one of the most active commenters on the site.

Dark_Sage says:

June 7, 2015 at 5:29 pm

It probably took him that long to read the post. Poor guy, maybe I should narrate these things so it’s easier on ESLs.

Anon says:

June 7, 2015 at 6:04 pm

>Unequivocally, and unemotionally, I recommend you go with HorribleSubs/Crunchyroll for Oregairu Zoku.

laughtrack.flac

duplex says:

June 7, 2015 at 6:11 pm

BAZINGA

CoffeeFlux says:

June 7, 2015 at 6:17 pm

awo.ooo

Alter says:

June 7, 2015 at 7:16 pm

Thanks for review.

Faces says:

June 7, 2015 at 7:51 pm

are you okay D_S

Dark_Sage says:

June 7, 2015 at 9:13 pm

Just checked the mirror; I’m fine.

jonwoo says:

June 7, 2015 at 8:42 pm

CR would have been fine if they didn’t turn a few scenes into complete nonsense.

http://i.imgur.com/sNz43CF.jpg

http://puu.sh/hVinZ/4daeba7921.jpg

I’ll unfortunately be sticking with the meme team for this show.

Kristen says:

June 7, 2015 at 9:13 pm

Between two piece of bread, would you rather have:
1. Crap that prior to being digested was authentic Parmigiano Reggiano cheese aged to perfection
2. Kraft American Singles

That’s what Commie is compared to CR. CR may have a few scenes that aren’t all that authentic or proper, but at least it doesn’t make you want to vomit like Commie’s.

Anon says:

June 7, 2015 at 9:17 pm

Commie’s is just full retard at times, which while extremely cringe worthy, still makes sense at vital scenes.

CR just flat out doesn’t make sense at times.

Honestly, they’re both pretty crap, one’s all Herp Meme Derp, while the others just WORDSWORDSNONSENSEWORDS

Dark_Sage says:

June 7, 2015 at 9:19 pm

Good thing we have FFF to–

LotusGG says:

June 7, 2015 at 10:03 pm

I’m glad the show sucks, else I would be sad.

FalseDawn says:

June 7, 2015 at 9:32 pm

The second one is just missing an “it” between ‘break’ and ‘down’. Guess their QC was having an off-day to let that one slip through? It happens, though, even to the best of us. Admittedly, it’s somewhat wordy for what it’s trying to convey.

The first one I’m not really sure on but I think it probably makes more sense in context with what they’re actually talking about, though the two differing translations in the last frame would make me wonder which is correct and which is mistranslated.

anon says:

June 7, 2015 at 9:39 pm

It’s actually comparing against this scene in the Commie release: http://i.imgur.com/qBESUxA.png

Anonymous says:

June 8, 2015 at 12:52 am

>Without regard for characterization that makes sense, Commie makes every character sound like a fucking valley girl.

That’s how they are speaking, though. translating なんか to “like” is perfecetly acceptable.

CoffeeFlux says:

June 8, 2015 at 12:07 pm

i mean, almost all the dialog complaints are just localization of more informal japanese, but this article is obviously bait so it’s not worth trying to argue

Dark_Sage says:

June 8, 2015 at 12:19 pm

I think if you whine about me on Twitter and IRC more, that’ll really show me up.

CoffeeFlux says:

June 8, 2015 at 12:33 pm

i mean, i think a lot of your articles are fine/helpful, but having seen both releases for oregairu i think this article is p stupid
w/e

though i still don’t get why you blocked me over a joke on twitter O_o

anonymous says:

June 10, 2015 at 7:50 am

Cos your twitter is fucking cringeworthy.

You really like herkz, Xythar and their buddies, huh?

nigger says:

June 8, 2015 at 10:05 pm

Dark_Sage is a Japanese expert, didn’t you know? That’s why all his old fansubs were renowned for translation accuracy.

Anonymous says:

June 8, 2015 at 11:29 pm

It’s pretty obvious that the only reason D_S gave this such a scathing review is because he’s on a tirade against fansubbers. Usually he can just justify fansubbers’ “irrelevancy” by saying that they come out hours, sometimes days, after a professional release. That’s not the case here, though, so he needs to try grasp at what ever straw he can find. And complaining about translating Japanese slag or casual speech into English slang/casual speech is clearly indicative of that. Not to mention still recommending CR despite their seriously damning translation errors.

I’m not even watching this show with subs, nor do I care about Commie, but this review is seriously sad. Pathetic, even.

qq says:

June 8, 2015 at 11:56 pm

Yeah, he’s sure grasping at straws when Commie puts shit like ‘What are you, GEICO?’ and ‘HelloHello’ in their release. They’re so incompetent in trying to use slang that they fucking misspell ‘gimme’.

No-one here is complaining that they tried to use slang, just that it fails so hard at reflecting natural speech. My eighty-year-old grandmother could do better.

Dark_Sage doesn’t speak Japanese; he doesn’t rate translation accuracy for this reason. We have enough ‘experts’ bitching at how this group or the other translate ‘chotto’ as it is.

Seems to me that you’re the one grasping for straws. But hey, I’m sure you have no horse in this race.

Anonymous says:

June 9, 2015 at 8:45 am

One of D_S’s complaints was characters using the word “like” a lot. なんか and ～さ are just words people throw into sentences literally wherever. It’s basically identical to saying “like”.

>‘What are you, GEICO?’
Personally I thought this was a good localization. Most of Commie’s audience are American anyway, and if they aren’t, sucks for them. It’s not like they’d have gotten a Japanese reference.

>and ‘HelloHello’ in their release.
I don’t remember where they used this, so I won’t comment.

And anyway, people are bitching about translating things like “kotatsu” and “bento”. Neither are words in English and I’ll bet a large sum of money that most people watching this release don’t know what a kotatsu is. I’m sure if Commie left “kotatsu” in the script, more people would be asking what it meant than the GEICO reference. And there is literally no reason to not to translate “bento”, since there are probably a hundred different ways to reflect in English what was said in Japanese.

>Dark_Sage doesn’t speak Japanese; he doesn’t rate translation accuracy for this reason
And yet most of what he was complaining about were translation choices / localisation. That’s why this review is so pathetic, because neither are topics he has the qualifications to talk about.

Dark_Sage says:

June 9, 2015 at 9:26 am

Localisation decisions are well within the domain of an editor’s responsibilities. The implication that one cannot have an opinion on a translation without being fluent in the source language is either ignorant or duplicitous (depending on the person vomiting up the bullshit). Not quite sure which best describes your position here, but I can’t say either reflect well on you.

I’ll deal with the rest of your sobbing when I get off work. Try not to choke on Commie’s cock before then.

qq says:

June 9, 2015 at 9:29 am

Translating all fillers as the exact same word in every instance is a fucking terrible idea. For one, it’s gratingly repetitive. It also doesn’t match the speech patterns of most of the characters. Finally, translating word-for-word is a horrible idea in any case, but especially so given it’s informal and J->E.

The GEICO line, apart from being wholly retarded and inscrutable to anyone not familiar with the company, didn’t fit the line whatsoever and cut the flow. No-one should expect or want a fucking Jerry Seinfeld routine in their anime.

Both ‘kotatsu’ and ‘bento’ appear in English dictionaries, so by many people’s standards, they are English words, especially so when you consider the audience. I can’t say why Commie & Co. hold such a ridiculous grudge against Japanese loanwords, but they’re really only kidding themselves.
Besides which, people aren’t as stupid as you make out; when seeing an unfamiliar word, most either try to infer the meaning from context, or look it up in a dictionary, both of which are perfectly doable with common nouns.
I honestly don’t care either way, though: to me, it really is a stylistic choice.

What Dark_Sage is bitching about is how the final, English product reads, which anyone who is fully literate in English is qualified to do. Or are you claiming the GEICO line and the misspelling of ‘gimme’ are fully justified by the Japanese?

Anonymous says:

June 9, 2015 at 9:20 pm

How many native English speakers would know about Mameshiba, and how many would know about GEICO? And given that the two catchphrases are practically identical (apart from one being English and one being glorious sacred nihongo), localizing Mameshiba to GEICO is a perfectly justified choice to make in translating that line.

If you thought the GEICO reference was unnatural and “cut the flow”, I don’t see how leaving it as Mameshiba would be any different, unless you’re the kind of person who thinks “oh, it’s a Japanese thing I don’t understand, so it must be funny, right?”

qq says:

June 9, 2015 at 9:43 pm

There’s where my lack of Japanese (and American insurance companies, apparently) knowledge fails me in this conversation, as I really can’t tell about the original line. If they actually put something so stupid in the VO, then the line could well be justified (though I still think the interruption as it reads just doesn’t work well). Still, even barring that line, there’s all the rest of the shit. I’ve always enjoyed when the editor or their fanboys respond to every line of the post, and I would love to see you hand-wring your way through these.

FalseDawn says:

June 10, 2015 at 9:12 am

I think that’s one of those situations where you’re damned if you don’t and damned if you do. I kinda agree that no one would understand Mameshiba left as it is, but using an American company in a Japanese setting just doesn’t make logical sense whatsoever unless you go the whole hog on the localisation and change the setting to America (which is inadvisable because of how fraught with danger it is). I’d personally probably write it out as “a car insurance company” rather than listing any specific company people might not know because at least that gets the joke across, rather than losing at least part of your audience entirely (I’ve never heard of GEICO). Either that, or I’d use one of those dreaded TL notes that everyone’s allergic to nowadays ;)

Kiraly says:

June 11, 2015 at 10:24 am

Mameshiba, as in those cute bean ads gg used to sub?

I still have no idea what the hell GEICO is though.

Kristen says:

June 9, 2015 at 6:44 am

Grasping at straws is pretending that you can ignore the crappy state of every other part of your release because someone with JLPT 4 says it’s good.

Translation is important, but it isn’t everything. Especially when the subs are made by 12 year olds. Honestly starting to thing that Commie is trying to fall out of relevance.

TotallyNotGovna says:

June 9, 2015 at 6:48 am

Now you can see the amount of effort they have to put it to match your level.

Kristen says:

June 9, 2015 at 7:40 am

Speaking of grasping at straws…

Anonymous says:

June 9, 2015 at 8:49 am

>release because someone with JLPT 4 says it’s good.
I thought Chihiro was the only group still dumb enough to think that the JLPT is a good measure of a translator’s understanding of Japanese.

And let’s not mention you taking the side of someone who doesn’t know a single word of Japanese commenting on the Commie’s translation / localisation choices.

Kristen says:

June 9, 2015 at 10:25 am

Ever heard of the SAT? It’s a test given in America which nearly every student sitting for college sits for. It is supposed to test how well a student will do in college, as well as partially testing their logical reasoning abilities.

When you take the test, you are graded on a scale of 200-800. Students taking the test early, such as a 5th grader, usually will score in the 300s. Low end students will score between 400-450 and those grades are usually never improved. These are D-type students. 450-500 are your C-type students and can be improved with some work to get to average. 500-600 are your average students, typically who would get a B in classes. 600-660 are your A students. 660-800 are your geniuses, and your score in that range is usually based off of luck.

A college admissions officer typically has thousands of applications to look through. To help with the selection, they automatically toss out the low SAT scores (usually the ones below 500) before looking at anything else.

The JLPT is similar is accessibility to fansubs. A person who does not pass a certain level of JLPT I can guarantee will not be a good translator. Back when JLPT was 4 levels, I know someone with JLPT 4 always required massive TLC and was typically a worse translation than chinese -> english. JLPT 3 required good TLC. JLPT 2 typically could do the TLCs. JLPT 1 could translate and not need any TLC.
Do you need to test the person applying? Certainly. You could have JLPT 1 and be terrible at English, or terrible at expressing what was being said. But I have never met anyone who is JLPT 4 who could do a good translation.

Abunja says:

June 9, 2015 at 10:35 am

Wow, such standards. Can I vouch for this to be true all the time?

Kristen says:

June 9, 2015 at 10:41 am

I suppose you could? Unlike Japanese, SAT testing and college admissions are considered to be one of my specialties. I have tutored SAT for nearly 4 years now so I know the test and how it is used.

That anon that makes tranny jokes says:

June 13, 2015 at 9:14 am

Who the fuck would let a tranny tutor their kids?

Kristen says:

June 13, 2015 at 9:41 am

Someone more human than you.

That anon that makes tranny jokes says:

June 13, 2015 at 9:48 am

So you think there are degrees of humanity? And you consider that some are people are less human than others?
Wow that’s really harsh coming from someone that likes to take it up the ass and dress like a girl.

qq says:

June 13, 2015 at 11:16 am

Human
adjective
…
1.2 Showing the better qualities of humankind, such as kindness

Don’t be so antagonistic. It was perfectly clear what Kristen meant, and you’re only making yourself look stupid.

That anon that makes tranny jokes says:

June 13, 2015 at 11:35 am

If he meant it in that way it does mean that he believes some people are more human than others.
Which is retarded coming from a tranny if you consider that they are discriminated for being thought as lesser individuals.
I’m sorry that you didn’t get that.

Kristen says:

June 13, 2015 at 12:43 pm

Yes. Some people are sub-human. Murderers, rapists, arsonists, and racists/sexists/homophobes all fall in this category. Because a person who does any of those things to another person is no longer qualified to be on the same level of humanity as a truly good person.

FalseDawn says:

June 13, 2015 at 1:27 pm

>trying this hard to troll

Haven’t you got better things to do, anon?

Anon says:

June 9, 2015 at 2:37 pm

Do you live in America? Because it sounds like you’re a bit confused. The SAT’s that you’re talking about and the SAT’s colleges look at are completely different things. No college looks at a test you took in fifth grade.

kokujin-kun says:

June 14, 2015 at 3:35 pm

I’m actually pretty disillusioned with how easy it is to pass the JLPT 1.

I say if you really want to know how good you are, you should take tests like this:

http://www.nystce.nesinc.com/PDFs/NY_flds11-20_objs.pdf

Oily greasy says:

June 8, 2015 at 12:57 am

Or you can wait until Christmas comes for FFF to finish oregairu s2.

Hahaha, I’m being optimistic here.

Goshiete says:

June 8, 2015 at 2:11 am

Thanks!
Now I can finally continue watching it with Commie.

Orco says:

June 8, 2015 at 3:00 am

>Unequivocally, and unemotionally, I recommend you go
with HorribleSubs/Crunchyroll for Oregairu Zoku. You
deserve better than Commie.

Dully noted. Now, if only FFF can catch up…. :<

Solaristics says:

June 8, 2015 at 3:09 am

Thanks for the seasonal laugh.

Petoyusa says:

June 8, 2015 at 6:24 am

Well memed, sir!

Also, I luv you! <3

Dark_Sage says:

June 8, 2015 at 3:07 pm

Petoyusa says:

June 9, 2015 at 8:07 am

I fooled you! Ahahahahaha!

In fact, I’ve never once considered you a man!

qq says:

June 9, 2015 at 8:28 am

…You right there, man? You need a moment?

Petoyusa says:

June 9, 2015 at 9:28 am

Oh, i’ve met a lot of people like you. They think things like “let’s bully the foreign German ESL nazi”. But those people like you are the real nazis. You don’t tolerate me as an foreign ESL. Instead you treat me like I’m inferior. You know what this is? The behaviour of a racist! {\i1}You{\i0} are a racist!

I’m disappointed. I didn’t expect my qq-senpai to act like such a hidoi, hot ‘n cold baka!

qq says:

June 9, 2015 at 9:32 am

lol ok then

Abunja says:

June 9, 2015 at 10:26 am

Subtitling failed.

Dark_Sage says:

June 9, 2015 at 9:30 am

Can’t blame you when I look so good in a skirt. And out of one, of course~

pi says:

June 8, 2015 at 10:46 am

Finally, thank you based dark!

i lol’d

herkz ‏@herkz2 2h2 hours ago
@Fyurie @coffeeflux2 @Xythar @TornPls because all he exists to do anymore is go against the grain of popular opinion

Dark_Sage says:

June 8, 2015 at 11:01 am

I wonder if he realizes Commie’s getting fewer downloads than HorribleSubs for this show… on their home turf of Nyaa. Factor in other sites/Crunchyroll itself and the numbers aren’t even close.

It isn’t 2010 anymore — this post certainly is certainly not contrary to popular opinion.

Kristen says:

June 8, 2015 at 10:53 am

What’s funny is how they keep hiding behind the banner of translation, believing it to destroy all other flaws.

Trust me, a burger made out of fresh ground meat that is overseasoned and then burned to a crisp will always taste worse than McDonald’s.

Dark_Sage says:

June 8, 2015 at 11:51 am

Calling Futsuu’s translations “fresh” is stretching it a bit. I don’t believe he’s ever proven himself to be capable of translating anything more difficult than a children’s book.

Anon says:

June 8, 2015 at 2:30 pm

And I’m sure you can judge his Japanese knowledge because yours is better than his or any other translator’s, for that matter, right?

Dark_Sage says:

June 8, 2015 at 2:42 pm

However good his “Japanese knowledge” might be doesn’t matter an iota if he can’t convey that understanding into English. And as far as that goes, no, I haven’t met any TLs who stand a chance of scraping their way up to my literary level. Maybe you could find one for me, cuz this scene clearly can’t.

Anonymous Coward says:

June 8, 2015 at 2:54 pm

so wouldn’t a better idea to just kill the fansub scene outright instead of letting it linger along like this

like, ddos their sites, wipe their ftps, or even dox them and get them arrested

cause might as well forcefully put them down if they’re refusing to accept that they aren’t welcome anymore, especially when they’re actually hurting companies by misleading people on 4chan and reddit to think commie’s release is superior

Dark_Sage says:

June 8, 2015 at 3:03 pm

FalseDawn says:

June 8, 2015 at 4:06 pm

I’m sure you’re not serious, but let’s not do that.

Anon says:

June 8, 2015 at 3:30 pm

Thank you, I was expecting a reply like this one.

Good show as always.

Dark_Sage says:

June 8, 2015 at 3:39 pm

I do try to have fun~

Rob says:

June 8, 2015 at 11:32 am

Not enough hate for Commie in the comment section of this post, what’s going on????? D_S halp!

Gary says:

June 8, 2015 at 12:44 pm

That’s why I always prefer officialsubs over shitsubs.

Dium says:

June 8, 2015 at 5:36 pm

thanks for your recommendation of commie

pantsuline says:

June 9, 2015 at 9:21 am

“Thanks to subs crafted with the deftness of a Capcom translator”
You might wanna read this:
http://www.capcom-unity.com/zeroobjections/blog/2014/11/21/localization-and-ace-attorney

Dark_Sage says:

June 9, 2015 at 9:51 am

There aren’t enough words in the world to explain away that guy’s decision to translate “Japan” as “LA”.

pantsuline says:

June 10, 2015 at 1:46 am

I actually think their reason for changing the location is fairly sensible. As it says in the article, they were originally going to relocate the game’s setting to a generic no-name city, but then time zones came into play right from the first case and they were pretty much forced to set the game in a real life location.
Now you might say something like “Why not just keep it in Japan?” and I think their reason for not doing that is because the game was being localized for Western audiences that weren’t necessary big on anime games or other types of Japanese media, unlike this sub here whose demographic is mostly anime fans.

QQwerty says:

June 10, 2015 at 2:42 am

>weren’t necessarily big on anime games or other types of Japanese media

Ah yes, our audience doesn’t like anime, so let’s pretend this country called Japan doesn’t exist. Pure genius!

qq says:

June 10, 2015 at 2:54 am

I fail to see why time zones necessitate setting it in a real-life location; after all, the games’ setting is highly fictionalised, and subsequent games introduced fictional countries anyway.
Somehow, I doubt they really put enough thought into the location— certainly not enough to check the sequels to realise that they are exponentially harder to pass off as American (also how they screwed the pooch on the title). The entire second case of the second game could not be set in a more Japanese location, for example.

My main problem is that they were unwilling to maintain the increasing amount of effort to make them Japanese, and are trapped in some pseudo-Western location that is highly unconvincing. If they weren’t willing to change the games enough to make them really appear American, they shouldn’t have half-arsed it.

Besides which, considering the art style, I’d say most people interested in it would at the very least not be put off by anime games. I doubt their sales would have really been affected if it were set in Japan, given far more successful games had been set there at the time.

pantsuline says:

June 10, 2015 at 5:27 am

“I fail to see why time zones necessitate setting it in a real-life location; after all, the games’ setting is highly fictionalised, and subsequent games introduced fictional countries anyway.”
It would be harder for the player to solve the issue surrounding the time on the victim’s clock and the time of death if they didn’t have actual locations and time zones to work from, as the victim had just returned from a trip to another country.

And, believe it or not, I have encountered Ace Attorney fans who weren’t into anime that much when they got into the series but still liked it because the characters, writing and setting had been adapted to appeal even to those people. Incidentally, this is also the case for the Japanese version, since its director wanted the game to be accessible enough for even his mother to pick up and play. And as for the artstyle, it’s a tad more realistic than most other anime-style media.

By the way, I do agree that the Japanese elements left in-tact in the localized version ruin the illusion the the game is set in America, but that has a bit to do with the fact that the director was told that the series was not going to be localized after he made the first game localization-friendly (The games were originally released on GBA and were only localized when the DS ports were made).

QQwerty says:

June 10, 2015 at 5:41 am

>it’s a tad more realistic than most other anime-style media

Are we playing the same games? Ace Attorney takes stereotypes to the absolute EXTREME for comedic effect. Don’t get me wrong, I love it and this doesn’t prevent the story from being serious when it needs to, but to say character designs like Gumshoe, Franziska and Blackquill are “more realistic” than your typical anime artstyle is just plain stupid.

qq says:

June 10, 2015 at 6:40 am

Would it really, though? I don’t know what proportion of Francophiles on the US West Coast played the first game, but the game felt the need to explicate the LA-Paris time difference, so I fail to see how having the victim travel to a fictional location would have impeded figuring out the trial case. It gets a lot less intuitive from there, that’s for sure.

Have to agree with QQwerty about the anime art style. The hairstyles are as ridiculous as they come, there are hair and eye colours of every colour of the rainbow, the outfits are often ridiculously gaudy and elaborate…
It’s not exactly a subdued and natural art style.

The director may not have realised they weren’t supposed to localise it, but they should have at least checked the two other games in the series that were out. A real lack of foresight on the director’s behalf.

Kristen says:

June 9, 2015 at 10:52 am

Commie’s problem is simple. They try to be something, but they stop just short.

Commie wants to be a group that translates localized. However, you see many things in their subs that just aren’t localized at all. For instance, we can talk about names. Sure, they reverse name order so that it is like the US. But who in the US calls people typically by their last name? Maybe some sports coaches or jocks, but that’s about it. Everyone else at your level is on a first name basis. Anyone above you, such as a teacher or a boss you’d call “Mr. Lastname”.
They also make many mentions to Japanese food such as Octopus Sausage or Riceballs. People in America don’t eat this food on a regular basis unless they are immigrants from Japan or ethnic Japanese. Instead of doing this, they should use their typesetting skills which they currently waste on animating subtitles and drawing penises into OPs, and replace the Japanese foods with PB+J sandwiches and burgers.
They also mention Japanese places and references, such as the “straight down to the US” line. Someone in US reading that line would think “Huh? Right below me? That’s weird”. No, that should have been “Straight down to China” and have references to Tokyo replaced with Chicago or Seattle.
And that leads to a final observation. Do people in America really have names like Saika and Yumiko? You might see one or two, but everyone in a class certainly will never have names like that. Instead of Saika and Yumiko, doesn’t Ashley and Sarah sound so much better? Hell, Ashley even is a name that works for both girls and boys, so it will match Saika’s personality!

Commie is just a few steps away from successfully localizing subtitles. However, until they take these steps they will forever be in the grey area between unlocalized subs and proper localized subs.

Anon says:

June 10, 2015 at 7:58 pm

There’s a clear difference between localization and rewriting the story. You can, and should localize jokes that wouldn’t otherwise be understood to a western audience without explaining it to them via some sort of TL note, which just detracts from the humor. Names and food aren’t localized because you kind of fucking can’t? Commie’s script actually isn’t bad aside from a few localized lines which change the tone of certain lines (translating yahallo which is a cutesy greeting to yo ‘sup which is the exact opposite). The ‘preach it’ thing might be a little off but that doesn’t really matter in the end because it’s annoying and makes you want to shoot yourself which is the point of the scenes like that.

CoffeeFlux says:

June 10, 2015 at 8:46 pm

the yahallo to “yo, ‘sup” wasn’t the best decision
i understand why they changed it (even if i disagree) but their choice of alternate phrase changed the tone

the preach it fits perfectly, tbh
when the characters use variations on the phrase, commie does the same with the preach it
cr, on the other hand, just switches the phrase entirely
the phrase is also obnoxious enough that it made me want to, as anon so eloquently put it, shoot myself

Assirra says:

June 9, 2015 at 11:08 am

hellohello

Henry Ford says:

June 12, 2015 at 7:10 am

It’s literally what she said though. there is no room to say it’s a mistake she’s speaking engrish…

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 10:57 am

OkayOkay…

N/A says:

June 9, 2015 at 2:19 pm

I would like to hear kokujin-kun’s opinion on this matter.

Dark_Sage says:

June 9, 2015 at 2:21 pm

You could try contacting him through Twitter but he’s going through IRL stuff right now…

@kokujin_kun

N/A says:

June 9, 2015 at 4:30 pm

I would really like to broaden the view. Unfortunately I don’t have a Twitter nor FB account. Guess I can only pray now. (-_-)

As an ESL guy, I sometimes struggled with Commie’s subs, but I thought they shouldn’t be worse than CR’s. Now it seems that I might be wrong.

I hope to see more of your reviews soon. :)

Notathrowaway says:

June 16, 2015 at 1:36 am

Oh god, watching Commie as an ESL, I can only imagine the amount of “???”

N/A says:

June 16, 2015 at 4:34 pm

It wasn’t that bad, but I only found out how much I missed after rewatching all episodes with HS.

Anon says:

June 9, 2015 at 3:48 pm

Just a friendly reminder of Commie ‘logic’.

http://puu.sh/4C7HO.png

Qrius says:

June 9, 2015 at 4:09 pm

Now that’s a great example – from the golden days when people wrote entire essays on the appropriateness of a single flowery word. Keep up the good work, anon.

N/A says:

June 9, 2015 at 4:51 pm

I remember that essay. 8thsin was afraid that this flowery word could set the whole story. We now know that wasn’t the case. :)
I also remember he admitted that his translation isn’t perfect and acknowledged his errors.

Well I miss his reviews (TL POV).

Solaristics says:

June 10, 2015 at 1:38 am

I can see that herkz hasn’t changed :^)

Kristen says:

June 10, 2015 at 8:43 am

Mostly. Except before, when he was defending his soddy translations by claiming he edits were better, now he defends his soddy edits by claiming his translations are better.

SanZ says:

June 9, 2015 at 9:46 pm

‘Logic’? ‘Idiosyncrasy’ is the most appropriate choice of word here

Anonymous says:

June 9, 2015 at 10:12 pm

Has this been the less harmful review ever? Where’s all the butthurt? Where are the tons of hate over Commie’s release?

I think it would have worked better if this was an FFF vs. Commie, trying to rile up FFF devs against Commie, even if they are like two months behind.

qq says:

June 10, 2015 at 2:31 am

Commie devs by and large don’t comment here because they pretend that this site is beneath them and they pay it no mind, despite demonstrably reading it regularly and are irked enough by the comments to screenshot half of them.
So don’t worry— while there may not be many butthurt posts on this outside of their fanboys, I can assure you they’re all circlejerking in their echo chambers over the post.

anonymous says:

June 10, 2015 at 7:55 am

Watching them “laugh off” criticism with their retarded fans on their twitters is the best part.

They just look like fucking morons.

Googol says:

June 12, 2015 at 11:00 am

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 10:59 am

They do comment here, just usually under alternate names.

Name goes here says:

June 10, 2015 at 7:07 am

Who the fuck even watches this show? I’d rather shove a screwdriver through my eye than watch this garbage.

Frank Zappa says:

June 10, 2015 at 8:18 am

I think only people smart enough not to shove screwdrivers through their eyes watch this show, Mr. Darwin.

Anonymous says:

June 10, 2015 at 2:02 pm

D_S, why are you trying so hard to spread your hate against fansubs after your “Fansubbing is dead” post?

Complaining about too simple karaoke, partly missing TS and cluttered subtitle placement while CR’s version is worse in these aspects and doesn’t even have karaoke is one thing e.g. that’s kinda strange from my perspective, because on one hand you’re complaining about too much self-presentation by Commie but if the karaoke isn’t complex enough you complain about something CR’s “superior” version doesn’t even have?

What’s up with this stance?

QQwerty says:

June 10, 2015 at 4:21 pm

His stance is simple. The majority of the issues he has is with the script. The lack of effective TS and karaoke means he has no reason to recommend Commie’s over CR.

Yes, people have brought up crappy editing and supposed TL errors (I ain’t qualified to comment on that) in CR’s, but ultimately it comes down to whether you can stomach Commie’s attempt at localization or not.

And D_S cannot.

CoffeeFlux says:

June 10, 2015 at 4:46 pm

or he’s just trying to start drama with a baitpost
not like that’s ever been done before~

Dium says:

June 10, 2015 at 4:48 pm

preach it sister :)

Kristen says:

June 10, 2015 at 5:21 pm

Bait or not, there are only two possible conclusions to come out of this article.

Possibility 1: Commie is bad, and you should get CR instead.
Possibility 2: Commie is bad, yet it is the lesser of two evils.

You cannot get out of this that Commie did a good job with their typos, distracting localization/ lookatme attitudes, awkward dialogues, poor typesetting, and bland songs.
Yet for some reason they have an A+ rating at the Nyaa Better Business Bureau.

Anonymous says:

June 10, 2015 at 5:56 pm

I do ‘t really think Commie’s release is bad. Sure there are classic Commie like edits and some missed TS opportunites, however missing KFX isn’t really speaking against A+ and considering even /a/ can deal with Commie’s release it actually seem to be bad.

Kristen says:

June 10, 2015 at 6:11 pm

Then you will never find any Commie release to be bad for as long as you live. For you have ascended past being able to look objectively at releases, and now see it as “It says Commie, so it’s good!”

Anonymous says:

June 10, 2015 at 11:21 pm

Not necessarily. I just meant that Commie’s Oregairu releases isn’t really bad as you’re trying to make it be. If you don’t like the localization sure, that’s a valid point, however the translation seems to be accurate and given that they release pretty fast compared to FFF I think Commie is a good pick for this show while HS/CR being late and having a messed up script isn’t really better.

Doesn’t mean that Commie is the best pick for all shows they’re doing.

Kristen says:

June 11, 2015 at 9:18 am

“given that they release pretty fast compared to FFF”

Since when is release speed a factor in quality? Just because you release faster doesn’t mean anything other than you got the job done faster.

“while HS/CR being late and having a messed up script isn’t really better.”

You’re talking comparisons. While I’d go with FFF personally for this show, what I was saying had nothing to do with comparisons.

Leave all other groups out of this. If Commie was subbing this show and nobody else, would you say they did a good job? No, definitely not. They couldn’t even do a spellcheck, added in references soon to be outdated, have typesetting that isn’t just missing but BROKEN (http://www.crymore.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Commie-Yahari-Ore-no-Seishun-Love-Comedy-wa-Machigatteiru.-Zoku-My-Teenage-RomCom-SNAFU-TOO-07-DD657623.mkv_snapshot_07.45.jpg) and some plain bad editing, like the “Surprised you greeted me like normal” line quoted above.

This is not A+ material no matter how you slice it. It is a poorly done shady script, possibly at the level of a troll script.

Anonymous says:

June 11, 2015 at 10:56 am

>Since when is release speed a factor in quality? Just because you release faster doesn’t mean anything other than you got the job done faster.
Fast release speed may imply less work? Doesn’t have to be the case, however I can agree that Commie’s TS work isn’t really good work in this show.

>You’re talking comparisons.
Well, someone who wants to watch the show has to take one of the releases?

>If Commie was subbing this show and nobody else, would you say they did a good job? No, definitely not.
Not a complete good job, but the script itself (minus spelling mistakes or whatsoever) is good to understand the plot & the characters of the show, so the translation fulfills it purpose.

>added in references soon to be outdated
Well we can discuss about one point for ages (and yet there still isn’t a better version without altering the original joke), but you also have to consider that this also might (or even will happen) to the original Japanese reference.

>This is not A+ material no matter how you slice it.
Wouldn’t call it A+ either, the mistakes are real.

>It is a poorly done shady script, possibly at the level of a troll script.
But that’s exaggerated. The script isn’t bad either. It has some mistakes or laziness at some points (like TS), however the translation does it job and compared to CR which fails at translation, Commie is preferable (can’t say anything about FFF since I haven’t watched the second season with their version, however they’re slow, so for staying up to date on the show FFF sadly isn’t really to consider). Out of the blue I would give Commie’s release a B.

Kristen says:

June 11, 2015 at 11:10 am

“Wouldn’t call it A+ either, the mistakes are real.”

“Bait or not, there are only two possible conclusions to come out of this article.

Possibility 1: Commie is bad, and you should get CR instead.
Possibility 2: Commie is bad, yet it is the lesser of two evils.

Essentially you agree completely with what I just wrote and just want to try to shoot the wind. I was saying that regardless of whether you think it’s the best or not, it’s not good, yet nyaa finds it to be A+ quality. Laughable. They might as well make Doremi A+ on Heatcatch Precure if they are going to call this A+.

Anonymous says:

June 11, 2015 at 11:17 am

>agree completely with what I just wrote
Not completely, partly ;)

>I was saying that regardless of whether you think it’s the best or not, it’s not good, yet nyaa finds it to be A+ quality. Laughable.
Well if you compress it to this sentence, I would say the release for the sake of watching the show itself (-> translation) is good, but it isn’t very good in terms of what we’re used of fansubbing (TS & QC and maybe editing stuff, however with the last I’m mostly fine with), so I think that it isn’t A+ worthy but also not bad or even troll level (that would definitely be exaggerated) and I think we can on that note end this particular discussion since otherwise this is going on to long over minor points.

FalseDawn says:

June 11, 2015 at 1:22 pm

So I finally looked into what Mameshiba actually was and found this:

“The Japanese word for “bean” is mame (豆?), a toy version of the Shiba Inu is a mameshiba (豆柴?), and the Japanese word for “trivia” is mamechishiki (豆知識?, literally “beans of knowledge”).”

Whatever way you cut it, the ‘pun’ Commie went for doesn’t work on many levels and it already altered the original joke, so I’m not sure why you’re even standing by that one.

But yeah, I agree – this discussion got convoluted very fast :D

Googol says:

June 11, 2015 at 4:27 pm

@FalseDawn, you are trying to hard, I must say. Though you totally missed the joke.

FalseDawn says:

June 11, 2015 at 4:28 pm

Hi Xythar, instead of your passive/aggressive screenshotting of comments, why don’t you try countering the points made here? D_S hasn’t banned you and I did once respect you as a fellow fansub editor (perhaps foolishly, given your current behaviour). So come on down, instead of hiding away in your Twitter cave.

FalseDawn says:

June 11, 2015 at 4:29 pm

Googol, if you think I missed the joke, then please by all means, explain it. The comments section is used for discussion, not pointing and laughing (however much we might enjoy it :D)

QQwerty says:

June 11, 2015 at 5:16 pm

Xythar’s twitter: “so here’s the thing about references: they won’t always make sense to 100% of people. that’s how references work.”

Oh for fuck’s sake.

qq says:

June 11, 2015 at 7:03 pm

And he responded… by levelling ad hominem atttacks against FalseDawn on Twitter. I seriously don’t see how anyone could still respect this cunt when he acts so petulantly.

Kristen says:

June 11, 2015 at 7:27 pm

I don’t think anyone respects Xythar as a person outside of the people he works with. He’s just too blind to see it.

qq says:

June 11, 2015 at 8:03 pm

Not sure there’s too much respect going around in his groups either, considering the staff.

Kristen says:

June 11, 2015 at 10:00 pm

Yeah. The only thing that scares me sometimes is how much Xythar and I actually have in common. I thought it was kinda neat at first, but seeing him continually bury himself into this hole of crying in his little twitter corner and making hypocritical statements (like defending transexuals after the things he said to me about my state), I really don’t want to be that similar to him if I can help it.

QQwerty says:

June 10, 2015 at 5:37 pm

I honestly couldn’t care less what his intentions of making this review are; the validity of his criticism is all that matters.

And just as an example, his point about the GEICO line is as valid as is comes. What in the name of fuck is GEICO? Am I supposed to know what that is when reading these subs? Having to stop and google a term in English subs isn’t exactly my idea of immersive.

The two counter arguments I’ve seen are:

1. You wouldn’t have understood it if it were left as “Mameshiba” anyway.
2. We made these subs for an American audience, so too fucking bad.

To the first I’d say “Well you’re supposed to be fucking TRANSLATING, so it would be nice if the line actually made sense to me as an English speaker.” Also, I take it that the Japanese would understand a reference to Mameshiba, so I kinda expect the translation to reflect that. It would be like if I TL’d a Japanese supermarket with Woolworths or Coles or some shit.

And to the second, cool, your decision I guess, but that’s real fucking stupid.

Anonymous says:

June 10, 2015 at 5:53 pm

Well, do you have an alternative translation for this line without changing the joke?

QQwerty says:

June 10, 2015 at 6:03 pm

FalseDawn above suggested just going with “a car insurance company”. *shrug* That works, I guess, if you really don’t want to change the joke at all.

But hey, I don’t see a reason why you can’t change the joke a little to be a bit more accomodating to a global audience. That’s what good localisation is all about, right? The only ones complaining would be advocates of 1:1 translations, and we all know how valuable their opinions are (hint: not very).

Dark_Sage says:

June 10, 2015 at 6:59 pm

“What, are you trying to sell me car insurance or something?”

I mean, editors please.

FalseDawn says:

June 10, 2015 at 9:42 pm

Or the very Kyon-sounding: “You’re not selling car insurance.” (disclaimer: Haven’t heard the audio so it might not fit)

There we go, what was all the fuss about? :D

LotusGG says:

June 11, 2015 at 5:46 am

memes?

Anonymous says:

June 10, 2015 at 11:49 pm

Well that would’ve worked out if it’s a joke about car insurances in general, however apparently the joke is about Mameshiba’a catchphrase, so I think translating the joke without changing the joke and making it understandable for everyone (->non-Americans) is kinda hard in this case.

FalseDawn says:

June 11, 2015 at 8:12 am

The “did you know”? If that is the entirety of the joke (I was assuming there was context that led up to that line because that is pretty nondescript), then the swap from Mameshiba -> GEICO is wrong anyway. You’re right though, if localisation is the only route you want to go down, you’d have to change the joke somewhat. “You’re not an encyclopedia” maybe.

Still, I wouldn’t rule out the old TL note. I know groups seem to be allergic to it these days, but it does save you getting further and further away from the literal translation in the name of being understandable in the target language.

Kristen says:

June 11, 2015 at 9:11 am

The Geico thing comes from a series of commercials that aired in the past year. It usually runs like this:

Person A: “Hey, I just found out I could save 15% on my car insurance by switching to GEICO.”
Person B: “Everybody knows that.”
Person A: “Well, did you know that Old McDonald was a really bad speller?”

*Flashes to a spelling bee with a farmer*
Judge: “Spell Cow”
Farmer: “Cow. C-O-W-E-I-E-I-O”
*Buzzer goes off*
Farmer: “Dag nab it!”

It’s a reference that will be completely lost in about 2 years time, and a reference completely lost to every English speaker outside of the US. At the very least it was a very poor and shortsighted editing decision, and the worst it could be classified as trolling.

qq says:

June 11, 2015 at 9:42 am

That joke is somehow shittier than I thought. The ‘did you know’ if that is the case doesn’t even start the commerical and is hardly the main tagline. I can’t say much about posterity, though: I hardly think this anime will stand the test of time either.

Kristen says:

June 11, 2015 at 9:48 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9-hIxf-nXg

For the exact commercial I was referring to. There was a whole slew of them.

Anon says:

June 11, 2015 at 10:12 am

>and a reference completely lost to every English speaker outside of the US

I’m from the whitest country in the world and I knew about GEICO and the commercials.
Well, did you know there’s Internet outside USA? :^)

qq says:

June 11, 2015 at 11:00 am

I’m not American and had never even heard of GEICO, let alone their shitty commercials. Living in a first-world country, I see enough god-awful ads as it is, so I’m hardly going to look up fucking foreign ones. Why the fuck *should* anyone outside of the US know of GEICO?

FalseDawn says:

June 11, 2015 at 11:01 am

Can confirm. I’m from the UK and I’ve never heard of this company, let alone their adverts. Also the “did you know” is used by plenty of companies in their advertising – Expedia comes to mind, though not sure if they’re international or not (some of their ads start with a fact about a touristy part of the world, though their actual tagline is “travel yourself interesting.” Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqrwsMUaOoE).

I’m not knocking them for it – jokes and puns are the hardest part of translation – but it is a bit of a swing and a miss on their part.

Dark_Sage says:

June 10, 2015 at 7:45 pm

It doesn’t even make sense to an American audience is the thing. The joke’s flow is non-existent.

Dium says:

June 10, 2015 at 4:46 pm

ＳＯＲＥ　ＡＲＵ！

Anonymous says:

June 10, 2015 at 5:11 pm

>The lack of effective TS and karaoke means he has no reason to recommend Commie’s over CR.
Well, at least there is a translation and better TS’d, so it’s definitely an upgrade on those ones.

>The majority of the issues he has is with the script.
Sure, and I can understand it that the localization may bother him, though sometimes it just looks like it’s too exaggerated. However, if CR’s version really contains errors in translation or the script misses the point, I don’t think that CR’s version is preferable if Commie’s version at least get’s the plot right.

However what I meant with stance was not just related to this post, but rather to some his recent blog entries since he has this “fansubs are dead & official subs are often better” stance. On some posts (like this e.g., the Owari no Seraph one or basically every post that deal with fansub groups themselves) there’s massive hate on fansubbers for being too lazy, making minor mistakes, focusing too much on self-presentation, taking people’s money for their own purpose etc. while more often (though not everytime) fuckups from official releases don’t get treated this hateful since apperantly official releases have a lower bar to reach in terms of quality, even though they are commercial.

It just seems that D_S is trying to create drama for the sake of drama. This isn’t exactly new, however since recent it seems that this hate intensified and that he’s just trying hard to create drama over minor things and I think this is getting ridiculous now.

Metsu says:

June 11, 2015 at 9:25 pm

The delusions is strong with this one. CR is the better (including FFF) despite it’s minor issues. Writing that Commie is somehow get’s the plot down is arrogant and brown-nosing it to extreme when the proof is above and several more examples that were not laid out in this review.

As the decline of fansubbers become more disturbing and arrogantly blind with their habitual mistakes and self-exaltation so to are their fanbase and their tunnel vision perspective that their fav group are still the better alternative because > hurr official subs, TL errors, make me pretty signs and karaoke! Fansubs came about due to a lack of translated animes. Since that demand has been met by CR and other companies (somewhat)through streaming and their presentation (mostly CR) has improved. This isn’t an excuse for them but relating to their physical releases nothing can be done there but streaming service can still correct these mistakes and CR at least has done it with Fate/Stay but I do not know how frequent it’s done.

However, these fansubbers in the scene take these official subs and puts a spin on it. Instead of correcting minor mistakes in the script, now these groups place their personality or/and groups policy into the script or worse just re-editing for no damn reason, creating something that the original author/writers did not intend for their story/characters to be presented in that manner. This being an original script, I cringe even more then some would with DameDesuYo’s Hanamonogatori. The same outcome happens as if they were working on official script.

It’s no secret this group destroys cultural references with their localization that at times makes Funimation minor in comparisons. Most importantly, the characters gets hit the hardest with their pathetic attempt of introducing to their viewers a different character by their subs with subtle nuisances that adds up overtime compared to the official subs or at least a competent group that isn’t garbage and takes it seriously and unfortunately that has waned. Commie isn’t that either nor ever were. Their Cross Ange showed their maturity level for all to see. How is it any different for this show? Because you believe? More power to you.

Their bastard offspring Vivid isn’t any better by rewriting some if not almost the entire script adding more profanity and out of character nuisance and releasing it as their own (plagiarisms disguised as fansub) with their supporters eating it up and defending whatever negativity comes at their chosen one.

duplex says:

June 12, 2015 at 12:21 am

Please learn English before writing 416 words of it.

qq says:

June 12, 2015 at 12:52 am

Come now, if we held people to such standards half of all fansub groups would cease to exist :P

LotusGG says:

June 10, 2015 at 5:45 pm

>Watching Commie

HUNTA says:

June 10, 2015 at 9:14 pm

Dat kara font.
Why does it look like arial?

KmE says:

June 10, 2015 at 9:42 pm

Because it is the same style with Arial? That’s a pretty standard gothic font.

HUNTA says:

June 10, 2015 at 9:37 pm

Actually here we go. The problem with commie isn’t that they adapt scripts. It’s that they adapt *all* of their scripts like they’re translating Excel Saga.

Anonymous says:

June 11, 2015 at 7:52 am

>im waiting 2 extra days for CR’s garbage and inaccurate translation so I can try and make a point that fansubbers are IRRELEVANT!! XDDDDDDDDD
I don’t even like Commie, but this is fucking sad. You’re as autistic as herkz and Xythar.

Dark_Sage says:

June 11, 2015 at 5:30 pm

Speaking of sad, how many posts do you have in this thread, and how many of them are you posting under different names/pretending to be different anons?

Come on, man. You don’t need to samefag to make your point if it’s something you truly believe in. Let your argument stand on its own misshapen feet.

qq says:

June 11, 2015 at 7:11 pm

And what are the chances that the person beyond these anons is some Commie & Co. dev or whatever too chickenshit to own up to their comments? I find it fairly likely.

LotusGG says:

June 11, 2015 at 7:07 pm

sure, ‘cuz geico jokes are super accurate

Faces says:

June 12, 2015 at 5:00 am

how do you know they’re not

LotusGG says:

June 13, 2015 at 8:04 pm

the same way he knows that cr is garbage and innacurate: through gossip and shitposting on rizon

Googol says:

June 14, 2015 at 5:52 am

You expect LotusGG to post anything but bullshit?

LotusGG says:

June 14, 2015 at 9:57 am

Wow, I’m actually trying here!

Kajitani-Eizan says:

June 12, 2015 at 2:57 am

Wait, what? D_S, I thought you knew some Japanese. Are you seriously telling me you are running a blog criticizing, in part, choice of translations without the least bit of the knowledge required to have any authority in criticizing translations?

Some of your complaints are because you have a certain view of how a localization should read, but that view has no actual grounding in reality because you apparently neither know Japanese nor how normal English speakers speak in a casual setting. You just have your personal opinion floating in a total vacuum that there shouldn’t be punctuation and spelling errors (good), high school girls should never use verbal crutches even if they do in the Japanese audio (what?), and Japanese words whose meanings would be inscrutable to anyone besides weeaboos, like “kotatsu”, should simply be left untranslated so that the viewer has no idea what the fuck they’re talking about (????). I hope you don’t shit a brick every time “ofuro” or “onsen” is translated, too.

If you really don’t know any Japanese, please stick to criticizing things you actually know something about, like typesetting, video quality, punctuation, grammar, and obvious meme insertions.

P.S. “What, are you trying to sell me car insurance or something?” is an absolutely terrible edit suggestion.

shin says:

June 12, 2015 at 5:35 am

loll

Kristen says:

June 12, 2015 at 7:39 am

There are plenty of other verbal tics in Japanese that are never translated. For instance, look at Higurashi. Nobody put anything on Rika’s “desu” after every line, and Rena’s “kanna kanna?” was either translated as “,right?” or just left out.
But even with tics being translated, nobody talks to the level of valley girl that Commie went to in any American television, unless it is a sitcom specifically trying to overexaggerate a teenage daughter. Valley girl dialogue is usually harder to decipher than normal speech, so while it may be closer to real life to have valley girl speech, it’s worse for the readers and further away from what television tries to do.

tl;dr I don’t know Japanese and this post is wrong.

Attack Submarine of Love and Courage, Magical Mental Model Rainbow Iona says:

June 12, 2015 at 8:48 am

What exactly is wrong with using “desu” “after every line”? It’s the copula. Rena’s “ka na” (not “kanna”) is also a copula in this case, just like all the other sorts used in colloquial speech (often added by girls to sound cute etc.; e. g. “no kasira”, “na no”, “desu wa”; used in polite speech, especially in antiquated usage, e. g. “de gozaru yo”, “de gozaimasu”, “de aru”). Using copulae is grammatically correct in Japanese.

On the other hand there are verbal tics and parasite words; “ppoi” (which is “like” or “-ish”), “nanka” and the likes tend to be abused in this way. If a character does in fact abuse a word like that it makes sense to highlight this in the translation.

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 9:31 am

Goddamn, you have an excellent username.

Kristen says:

June 12, 2015 at 10:08 am

I see, Xiatian. In another words, it’s OK to translate some tics and styles of speaking from Japanese because Commie did it, and it’s not OK to translate other styles of speaking because Commie did not.

Give me a break. Go back to your circlejerk.

Attack Submarine of Love and Courage, Magical Mental Model Rainbow Iona says:

June 12, 2015 at 10:31 am

I’m not sure what is “circlejerk”, since English is not a language I’m very good at. In this case I merely provided my opinion as a professional translator; my opinion is in no way influenced by Commie, FansubGate, BloatGirls, Chifailo or whoever else.

It’s sad that you’re blinded by your hate for everything that does not share your opinion. I would like to hear actual arguments, linguistics-wise, instead of personal attacks. Would you kindly mind explaining to me why do you suggest that properly used copulae should get the same treatment as parasite words?

Also, did Commie ever release Higurashi?

Kristen says:

June 12, 2015 at 11:06 am

>Saying you’re impartial
>Mentioning Chihiro and Coalgirls as Chifailo and Bloatgirls

>Talking about English nuances in dialogue
>”English is not a language I’m very good at”

Have a nice day. You’ve proven yourself to be a troll (not to mention the comments you made on Xythar’s twitter asking to be linked to here so you can laugh at it), so I have no reason or time to engage with you.

Anonymous says:

June 12, 2015 at 11:11 am

>>Talking about English nuances in dialogue
>”English is not a language I’m very good at

Well Kristen, you could replace English with Japanese in this example and then you could consider almost anyone here as a troll for discussing translations without even knowing/understanding the original Japanese dialogue.

Googol says:

June 12, 2015 at 11:32 am

His post makes more sense than your gibberish, Kristen. You are very conveniently disregarding the valid points he raised.

Kristen says:

June 12, 2015 at 11:38 am

He raises no points. He simply states that because a cat is not a dog, it is ethical to put them in a ring and have them fight to the death.

You can either adapt tics or you can write for an English audience. You don’t get to have your cake and eat it too.

Googol says:

June 12, 2015 at 11:46 am

He made a clear distinction between negative tics and completely legitimate elements of speech. However, you won’t ever agree with him, since he openly offended two groups you are related to.

Attack Submarine of Love and Courage, Magical Mental Model Rainbow Iona says:

June 12, 2015 at 11:46 am

I think you merely completely missed the point of my comment earlier. I would guess this is because you aren’t well versed in linguistics and the related terminology.

Kristen says:

June 12, 2015 at 12:39 pm

No, I didn’t miss your point. You’re saying they’re two different things because one is a tic to try and make them look cute, one is a tic in where it’s said in the line.
And I’m saying your point is complete horsecrap. Choose to either adapt something or not. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Attack Submarine of Love and Courage, Magical Mental Model Rainbow Iona says:

June 12, 2015 at 1:00 pm

Copula is not a tic. Changing the copula to something you prefer does not make it a tic. This is like saying that if someone uses “thou” instead of “you” in English, that someone has a tic. (Admittedly, English does not use as many different copulae as often, so there is no way to provide a fitting example.)

Attack Submarine of Love and Courage, Magical Mental Model Rainbow Iona says:

June 12, 2015 at 11:51 am

When I say “English is not a language I’m very good at” I mean that I do not consider myself qualified to work professionally as a translator into English.

I am well aware that my everyday English is better than that of about 90% (if not more) of this weblog’s audience, but this does not warrant me a right to translate into English (or, I guess, edit a completed translation) as I have not mastered it on a level close enough to a native speaker’s.

However, I can see why this would baffle you.

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 12:03 pm

You think 90% of Crymore’s readers are more ESL than you? There’s some weird projection going on here; might wanna clean those lenses.

Attack Submarine of Love and Courage, Magical Mental Model Rainbow Iona says:

June 12, 2015 at 12:28 pm

It’s not really about ESL. When the linguistics services company you work for routinely asks you to proof-read or edit texts authored by native English speakers, it tends to say something about your skills. (Please don’t pull me off my high horse, I’ll dismount by myself, thank you.)

Kristen says:

June 12, 2015 at 12:43 pm

Yeah, it says that you know a lot about your native language and a little bit about the language it was translated from. It’s similar to Xythar’s editing. His lovely JLPT 4 that he clings to so desperately as if it allows him to judge translations from professionals is really only good for one thing – helping him edit.

You speak like a native of English. That’s about it. You do not understand English idioms, and you do not understand English structure. So stop trying to pretend that you are somehow better than people who have spoken and learned English for their entire lives.

TotallyNotGovna says:

June 12, 2015 at 12:54 pm

Weren’t you just talking about the importance of the JLPT tests?

Attack Submarine of Love and Courage, Magical Mental Model Rainbow Iona says:

June 12, 2015 at 12:55 pm

Wait, how exactly being asked to edit an English text says that I know a lot about my native language?..

Also I’m not entirely sure what exactly allows you to make such blanket statements. I’m pretty sure you weren’t among my university’s English teachers so there is no way you can have any data on hand regarding my English skills. Oh, and in case you did not know, common English idioms are actually taught and explained in junior high school and high school.

Overall you seem to assume a lot of things about people you do not know. (You also seem to assume a lot of things about languages you do not know but that’s another question.)

P. S. What do Xythar or JLPT have to do with it?

Googol says:

June 12, 2015 at 12:56 pm

>Kristen
>Coherence

Kristen says:

June 12, 2015 at 1:20 pm

Misread. Thought you said you were asked to edit things translated from English.

Govna: Yes, JLPT is important. That’s why I’m laughing at Xythar’s JLPT 4 because it says he’s a scrub when it comes to Japanese.

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 1:24 pm

And what a fucking dismount. You must have some cheap clients.

Attack Submarine of Love and Courage, Magical Mental Model Rainbow Iona says:

June 12, 2015 at 4:51 pm

I don’t know about cheap, Blizzard pays well enough (and so does SCEU).

To re-iterate, I don’t do translation into English as my English knowledge is still lacking. Also, what did you even mean when you said “what a fucking dismount”? Please clarify that, at the very least.

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 5:23 pm

I really, really hate explaining my posts, since most are filled with double meanings and wordplay. Like, where am I even supposed to begin here, cuz you didn’t even understand what I meant with my “cheap” comment?

Basically, your English is falling apart the more you post. I was playing off your “I’ll dismount myself from my high horse, so don’t bother.” comment, because right after that you posted an abortion of English that discredited any claim you had to having pride in your English skills. One could consider that an effective self-dismount.

Specifically, “Wait, how exactly being asked to edit an English text says that I know a lot about my native language?..” hurt to parse, and the bombardment of Engrish after that didn’t help your cause.

If you want some advice, never end with an ellipsis, and never half-ellipse. To break it down, these are fine:
“…?”
“…!”
“…”

But these aren’t:
“?..”
“!..”
“..?
“..!”
“..”

These are debatable… if you’re writing with some stupid fucking style. So I would recommend you stay far away from them too:
“?…”
“!…”
“….”

Of course, that was not nearly the only issue with that sentence, but this sticks out like a FOB at McDonald’s.

Attack Submarine of Love and Courage, Magical Mental Model Rainbow Iona says:

June 12, 2015 at 5:32 pm

My usage of ellipses mainly comes from the language I actually translate from (and into) at my day job, so it’s a reflex (and my native language didn’t even have punctuation until relatively recently). Thanks for your advice on the ellipsis styles, I’ll take this into account for the future, I guess.

QQwerty says:

June 12, 2015 at 6:39 pm

Hey, if you work for Blizzard, could you tell them that “alright” isn’t a real word? Thanks.

Attack Submarine of Love and Courage, Magical Mental Model Rainbow Iona says:

June 12, 2015 at 6:53 pm

Blizzard is an American company and they use American English. “Alright” is considered a “real word” in AmE (see, for example, Merriam-Webster). This question was already raised in 2008 or so by their Ireland-based staff.

Abunja says:

June 12, 2015 at 12:04 pm

Why hate trolls when you’re one of ’em?

Googol says:

June 12, 2015 at 12:14 pm

These days “troll” seems to be the word to go by when you don’t know how to reply with a valid argument. So there’s no surprise there.

Kristen says:

June 12, 2015 at 12:29 pm

Reminds me a bit of harassment. Very often, the one harassing will accuse the victim of harassing them. That’s why it’s not a real surprise that when I call someone out for trolling, I am called a troll by the real trolls.

anon says:

June 12, 2015 at 6:59 pm

Just go away Kristen, seriously, shoo.

FalseDawn says:

June 12, 2015 at 7:29 pm

I think you’ll find, anon, that Kristen has every right to post in the comments section of this site. If you don’t like what she is saying, you also have the right to counter it or in fact, just ignore it altogether.

Abunja says:

June 12, 2015 at 9:25 pm

Uh, no? I remembered this one time that fnord was trying to a have a healthy discussion with you but you ended up and admittedly trolling him. Baited him even.

Now, you say that you were called troll by real trolls. By calling you troll, it too applies to me, right? But have you ever asked yourself why? Your credibility is always in question here, so how could we believe you were really stating pure facts rather than your mere speculations? How many times did we see that you put up another question when someone raises a valid question to you, rather than just answer it? How many times that you deliberately change the course of topic to your hate on some specific people? Stirring up drama can be fun at times, but it’s tiring to read your same shit all day long. Now let me ask, what kind of people this behavior is prominent to?

You may want to change the way you act, as I can see it is most likely the cause why people pick up on you.

Kristen says:

June 12, 2015 at 10:02 pm

Excuse me? Maybe I wasn’t myself that day if it happened at all. fnord is one of the few people from typically opposing fansub groups that I legitimately respect, even when I disagree with him. It’s probably just him, FalseDawn, and brainchild.

And stop giving me the same old song and dance about my attitude. I’ve heard it for years, and no matter how I change it, nothing changes. The reality is this – people didn’t like the idea of me posing as a girl on the internet, even though that is what I mentally am, so they didn’t like me. This hatred sped through generations of fansubbers because hating on Kristen was the cool thing to do.

You know I have gone months before without posting or doing anything anywhere, and people still blog about me with an ancient quote? That’s just what this reality is. It’s trolling me for the sake of trolling me.

Abunja says:

June 12, 2015 at 10:53 pm

As far as I’m concerned, I see only a few times here on Crymore that somebody raises your gender issues. Sure, IDK what is really happening outside here but the thing is the joke gotten really old that it isn’t funny anymore and pointing that out further makes no sense at all. While I do admit that I got a good chuckle on that one, but that’s it. If this the only thing that pisses you off, then try to act more maturely. Even kids nowadays won’t find it funny. And IIRC, koda’s issues are far more worse than yours. It’s just a matter on how you handle it.

Kristen says:

June 13, 2015 at 7:20 am

Cause and effect.
Person A is white, Person B is white, Person C is black.
Person A does not like black people.
Person A and B go to a bar and B spills his drink on Person A. A laughs it off.
Person A and C go to a bar and C spills his drink on Person A. A punches C in the face.

This is an example where race is a motivation for actions, but is not the trigger. A’s motive for hating C was race, but spilling the drink led to the action.

Same here. Motive is gender issues, but people try to claim other things as an excuse to hate.

How do I know this? I’ve lived my own life. I never acted any different from when I started fansubbing (December 2007) to today. From December 2007 to March 2010, I may have been joked about or critiqued, but it was never really hatred from anyone except Jaka. I had many good regular conversations in #kokizzzle. Hell, I remember that one guy, I think his name was Waryass, who actually bought me an external hard drive as a Christmas gift.
Starting in April 2010, things changed. People hated me, and would never hold a regular conversation with me. They continually posted nasty things about me, and some were downright hurtful.

What do you think changed? Simple, that was when my roommate outed me because I was going to kick him out of the apartment (for freeloading at my apartment, making unreasonable demands like to blast his music when I was trying to study, talking back and mocking me, and then talking crap about me behind my back to other people in Chihiro).

Also, comparisons of problems are never a good thing in any psychological setting. However, I will say that I do have many similar problems to koda, but I don’t mention them to anyone online because I know instead of being consoled about it, it will be used against me.

Anonymous says:

June 14, 2015 at 10:05 am

You were pretending to be a girl on the Internet just to seek attention, and then it all backfired and people discovered that you were actually a guy.

Or at least, that’s how the narrative goes. I don’t know or even care whether you identify as female now or if you’re sticking to your handle only due to inertia, and I don’t judge the idiocy of your statements by whatever gender you think you are at whichever phase of the moon.

Maybe other people do, and shame on them, but you’re still a complete tool regardless.

Kristen says:

June 14, 2015 at 12:38 pm

“just to seek attention”

You are not me. Do not pretend to know what my motivations were and are.

For your information, I have always enjoyed female activites, and first identified as a female when I was 9 years old when I learned there is a difference between guys and girls besides anatomy.

Anonymous says:

June 14, 2015 at 2:05 pm

Given that you’re a compulsive liar and troll, you can hardly blame others for not believing what you say, Kristen. I still don’t believe you, but that wasn’t my point in the first place, which was that you’re actually an idiot and it has nothing to do with your gender identity.

And funny that you’d mention that, because you think you know the motivations of people like Xythar and koda well enough to proclaim that they are somehow similar to you.

Kristen says:

June 14, 2015 at 2:38 pm

If you see everything I say as a lie, then I have no reason to continue talking with you and you have no reason to continue talking with me. You can simply believe everything I say that supports me is a lie, and everything you like is the truth.

But it doesn’t matter. In the end, you are just someone so insignificant and cowardly you can’t even post under a real username, so your opinion on me really doesn’t matter.

But for what it matters, I can say that I understand Xythar and Koda because I have walked a mile in their shoes. Or in the case of Xythar, boots to keep the spiders from biting.

Anonymous says:

June 15, 2015 at 2:22 am

The way I see it is that you say or do something dumb, and then either you backpedal by claiming “it was all a ruse!” (ergo you’re a compulsive troll), or you legitimately believe it was not dumb (ergo you’re an idiot). It’s lose/lose for you, really.

I’m only here to explain to all the other people reading these comments why what you do might not be as objectively correct as you think or claim it is. Engaging with you is a lost cause, because you treat all criticism as personal insults and refuse to improve just because of that.

As for anonymity, don’t pretend to know what my motivations are! I have my reasons, and you have no right to judge me as an insignificant coward until you’ve walked a mile in my shoes!

qq says:

June 12, 2015 at 7:56 pm

I don’t think you really have a good grasp on these linguistic issues, either. (I should point out now that I have a poor grasp on the Japanese language.)

A copula serves a definite grammatical purpose in a sentence— namely, to link the subject with its predicate. The copula in English is the verb ‘be’ as used in sentences like ‘I *am* your god’. This corresponds to ‘desu’ and its equivalents and conjugations and is mandatory in this role in standard Japanese. The usages don’t match up perfectly, but they *are* the closest equivalent, and both ought to be translated in their every instance.

What you’re thinking of is ‘desu’ when it does not serve a grammatical purpose, and though it is the standard copula, it isn’t acting as one in such sentences. This corresponds to the ‘ka na’ and the ‘na no’ you referred to earlily, where they change the tone/politeness/etc. (the affect) of the sentence. This should be reflected in the speech, obviously.

None of these words, it should be noted, are (as far as I’m aware) fillers, like ‘eeto’ and ‘sono’ or ‘like’ and ‘y’know’. ‘ppoi’ I’ve never heard as a filler, and its main purpose is to convert nouns into adjectives, like in ‘otonappoi’. ‘nanka’ is a filler, I believe.

I stated this above, but fillers, or indeed anything else, should not be translated 1:1 like a machine. Extra care should be taken with ‘like’ as it has an association with a certain stereotype (though it is used by most people nowadays, to the chagrin of some).

Petoyusa says:

June 12, 2015 at 11:46 am

>nobody talks to the level of valley girl that Commie went to in any American television

Well, you can’t compare this to US-doramas since anime shows are still cartoons. Nobody talks like the SNAFU characters in J-doramas (I guess).
Cartoons are well-known for dumb shit, and anime aren’t always that different either.

Kristen says:

June 12, 2015 at 7:50 am

lol @ Xythar tweeting my post cropping out the last line I wrote to mock him.

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 10:37 am

I’d recommend against bothering with Twitter drama. It’s a waste of time because all it turns into is safe-space whining by people whose ideas can’t cut it in an open market.

Googol says:

June 12, 2015 at 10:43 am

Whoa, doesn’t that apply to this blog too?

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 10:48 am

I consider Crymore an open market for ideas. I think we’re closing in on a year since I haven’t even had the ban plugin turned on.

shin says:

June 12, 2015 at 11:12 am

Did you type this shit while profusely stroking dick with your other hand?

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 11:15 am

It’s not exactly a novel concept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketplace_of_ideas

Edit: “novel” means “new/unique”

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 11:11 am

http://www.crymore.net/2015/06/07/commies-oregairu-zoku-snafu/#comment-282617

Kajitani-Eizan says:

June 12, 2015 at 12:56 pm

My reply above was in large part in response to that specific comment. You seem to have a mistaken idea of what an editor is well-qualified to judge. As a non-Japanese speaker, you are qualified to judge issues on the English side of things such as quality of writing, diction, meter, grammar, whether a joke is funny or not, etc. But you overreach yourself and think that means you also have a valid opinion on how accurate and appropriate translated/localized terminology, jokes, etc. are. For example, you criticized the GEICO joke because you don’t see the humor, which is a valid opinion. But your implication is that it’s a shitty localization of the original joke, which is false. You also referred to the “valley girl” speech as improper “characterization”. Perhaps you thought it was too much and it should have been toned down, which might be valid criticism. But your implication was that the “valley girl” speech was out of left field, which is a false implication that could have been avoided if you avoided commenting on things that you have no qualifications to comment on.

Do you at least speak a second language, even if not Japanese? That might at least give you some actual insight as to what issues are involved in translating or localizing something. No one is saying you can’t have an opinion, just that your opinion is likely to be wrong if you have no actual experience, knowledge, or background that would give your opinion weight. I know you like being dramatic and trollsy just for the fun of it, but you really should try to separate your informed legitimate criticism out from the uninformed personal opinions a bit.

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 1:19 pm

Sure are throwing out a lot of words that sum up to “by the grace of glorious god-sama, only our nihongo overlords are allowed to talk about English scripts”. I don’t even know where you’re coming from with this shit, cuz it certainly ain’t from the scene. Editors are generally expected to have a hand in the localization process because they (hopefully) have the cultural and linguistic experience to determine whether a line fits or not.

If you’re going to have an opinion on something, try to have an educated one.

Kajitani-Eizan says:

June 12, 2015 at 1:40 pm

So you’re confirming you don’t know a thing about translation, but you still think you’re qualified to pass judgment specifically on accuracy of translation choices? Ok

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 2:27 pm

If your stance is that the only people who should have a hand in a J->E translation are native Japanese speakers, then I would seriously recommend you avoid nearly all professional and fan releases, because most of them have had dirty gaijins touch the script.

Attack Submarine of Love and Courage, Magical Mental Model Rainbow Iona says:

June 12, 2015 at 4:48 pm

I feel like I should point out that any company that specialises in translation will only allow you to translate into your native tongue. Exceptions are possible but you must possess an expansive, native-level knowledge of the target language (for example, my company allows me to translate into the language I have my linguistics degree in, but it took me around 12 years to get good enough at that).

I’m actually dealing right now with a game localisation project where the original Japanese in-game text was translated into English by a team of translators from Japan (native speakers). And while it’s not as cringe-worthy as your average Japanese English, it’s still barely readable (lots of passive voice, constant “while …, … did”, astounding errors in linking subjects and actions, &c). The best part is that the Japanese developers planned to have the European publisher localise the game into the European languages (+ Russian) by using the English translation as the basis. Go figure.

TL;DR: translate from a language you know very well into your mother tongue. Anything else is tomfoolery.

Name says:

June 13, 2015 at 12:21 am

You wouldn’t happen to be talking about Tales of Zestiria would you? Simply curious because when I saw the announcement video for the PS4/PC version it said INCLUDING RUSSIAN. Which, I guess hasn’t been done before for a Tales games or something. I don’t know, but they seemed to want people to know.

Kajitani-Eizan says:

June 13, 2015 at 2:53 am

I doubt he could comment due to NDA but… oh dear, I hope not…

To be fair, that would still be better than what they did for Tales of Hearts R. Imagine if Commie were 12 and mistranslated the English script, then 4Kids’d it so hard that D_S’s eyes exploded, then gave that script to Europe so that they could use it as a basis for translation into the European languages. And then the European translators couldn’t really understand all the English idioms and unfitting jokes that were used and messed it up too.

That anon that makes tranny jokes says:

June 13, 2015 at 9:40 am

“Imagine if Commie were 12 and mistranslated the English script, then 4Kids’d it so hard that D_S’s eyes exploded”
I don’t have to imagine

Kristen says:

June 12, 2015 at 4:50 pm

There’s a simple difference between judging the accuracy of the translation choice and deciding how stupid it is.

Judging translation accuracy: “置き炬燵 isn’t a massage table, it is a heated table!”

Judging stupidity of a translation: “Kotatsu is a perfectly acceptable way of representing the heated table. Or just call it a table if you are so nipponphobic”

People just wish to discredit the people who call them out on their lack of talent in every other aspect of a release. And what’s even worse, if there is someone who can judge a translation criticizes them, then they will rip that person apart to try to maintain their monopoly.

Kajitani-Eizan says:

June 12, 2015 at 6:29 pm

Why is “kotatsu” not only a perfectly acceptable way of representing a heated table in English, but the ONLY way that doesn’t bleed the ~culture~ right out of the translation (according to D_S)?

Judging the “stupidity” of a translation requires one to actually have a perspective on what sorts of cultural ideas need translating and what don’t, and how those should be handled to accurately convey the right level of meaning and familiarity to the target audience. I hate to break it to you, but you don’t have that perspective.

You guys are like people who have eaten a lot of food but have never learned about or done any cooking. You can give legitimate critiques of the end presentation and taste of the food, but your diatribes about how dumb the chef is to go about cooking a certain dish a certain way are largely without meaning.

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 6:38 pm

“heated table” means nothing in English either. What country are you from again?

d says:

June 12, 2015 at 6:44 pm

Reminder that D_S once praised the use of “heated table” as opposed to kotatsu: http://www.crymore.net/2013/02/04/fansub-review-hatsuyuki-hybrid-vividred-operation-episode-04/

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 6:48 pm

Which worked in that scenario due to the accompanying visual. No American would know what a heated table was if you asked them. But if you showed them the image from Vividred they’d get it. Here, the image doesn’t fit.

Please understand that context is important.

Thanks for being such a longtime reader though. <3

Kajitani-Eizan says:

June 12, 2015 at 7:07 pm

The exact image you criticized in SNAFU shows a heated table. There is only one table onscreen. Gee, I wonder what they could possibly be referring to? A table that is… heated?

But no, don’t let my silly logic stop you from thinking that “kotatsu” is much more meaningful to a Western audience.

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 7:14 pm

Do you even know anyone who qualifies as part of a “Western audience”? Email them from whatever third-world you’re from and ask what they think a heated table is.

Kajitani-Eizan says:

June 12, 2015 at 7:23 pm

So in other words, it’s cool when Hatsuyuki/Hybrid calls a heated table shown onscreen a heated table, but when Commie does it it’s sanitizing culture away. If you don’t agree you’re from a third-world country.

P.S. I’m from the US, which is the primary English localization target country. What country are you from again?

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 7:28 pm

America. You type surprisingly well for a first-gen.

Abunja says:

June 12, 2015 at 11:49 pm

There are three Americas, D_S. You’re confusing me. @[email protected]

Dark_Sage says:

June 12, 2015 at 11:55 pm

I would think it’s commonly known that United States of America citizens call themselves American for short, and that (for the most part) no other citizens of countries on either American continent use that particular phrase to refer to themselves. On that note, when asked where we live, it’s “the US”, “the US of A”, “the United States of America”, “the USA”, or “America”.

Abunja says:

June 13, 2015 at 12:30 am

Duly noted, good sir.

James says:

June 12, 2015 at 7:16 pm

“Do you even know anyone who qualifies as part of a “Western audience”? Email them from whatever third-world you’re from and ask what they think a heated table is.”

Does it have a hot surface to keep my food warm?

qq says:

June 12, 2015 at 8:29 pm

Exactly. How anyone could get ‘table with blanket attached with a heater underneath’ from ‘heated table’ is beyond me.

Which or What says:

June 13, 2015 at 12:06 am

Dear Kajitani-Eizan and Dark-Sage,
It isn’t “what country”, it’s “which country”.
Also, I don’t know why this is being placed here.
I thought I clicked elsewhere.

Dark_Sage says:

June 13, 2015 at 12:08 am

Learn how common use works, commoner.

Which or What says:

June 13, 2015 at 12:12 am

Your linguistic descriptivism will be the doom of us all!

Anon says:

June 12, 2015 at 3:20 pm

Hi Xythar.

http://puu.sh/4Oxi3.png

Abunja says:

June 12, 2015 at 11:44 pm

He’s just screencapping random comments here. And yes, probably he isn’t reading the reviews.

Hairy says:

June 13, 2015 at 12:40 am

https://twitter.com/Xythar/status/609385656008093697

“So we’re all going with the narrative that Twitter is some kind of closed-off space where public discourse is not possible, I take it?”

When one side of a discussion is given the ability to quite literally close their eyes and ears to the opinions of those they don’t agree with, which is something Xythar does frequently, then I certainly think it would be inappropriate to suggest that twitter is an open platform for discussion and conducive to any kind of meaningful discourse. Maybe if Xythar enacted a policy of not blocking people who even hinted at having an opinion contrary to his, he’d have a point. Otherwise, taking any kind of argument to him on twitter is an entirely futile endeavor.

Jason Tyner says:

June 14, 2015 at 4:23 am

Speaking of being blocked on Twitter, can you unblock me, D_S?

Dark_Sage says:

June 14, 2015 at 10:10 am

The only things I should have blocked on Twitter are spambots. What’s your account?

Edit: Oh, found it. Yeah, tweeting “Fa VAn mundoin mni ren kai floced sa. Ogura Yui liska fulwgai ra kona ci omo neka cu. Eif neka kes.” at me randomly is likely to make me assume you’re a bot. Try to… avoid that in the future.

Jason Tyner says:

June 15, 2015 at 2:00 pm

Will do! Aduk tamen kis neka kes.

Melquiades says:

June 13, 2015 at 12:42 pm

You are just being nitpicky D_S, just as 90% of all of the things you whine to.

Denmark says:

June 20, 2015 at 9:11 am

> I want the real thing!
>> Like, um, what?

This line is 100% fine. It’s exactly what he said.

i take it back says:

June 24, 2015 at 4:05 pm

OK, I’d thought D_S was being too hard on Commie in this review, but I take it all back now that I’ve caught up to Ep 12.

Chalk and let? Coma cheese? Rice krispy treats? Seriously what in the absolute fuck are they even thinking? These are supposed to be more understandable? These are supposed to be preserving the humor and the original flavor?

They’re like children…

Abunja says:

June 25, 2015 at 10:57 am

Japanese puns sure tests the comedian within any liberal translator.

Cickány says:

June 27, 2015 at 1:22 pm

Did you see the CR version for these? Those are fantastic! CR translation never fails at jokes.

LotusGG says:

June 27, 2015 at 2:07 pm

not sure if sarcastic but cr gintama is amazing.

Ayyylmao says:

July 6, 2015 at 11:50 pm

Was this all sarcastic or is the author of this post really THAT autistic. Commie’s great

qq says:

July 7, 2015 at 5:36 am

I know, right? What kinda autist cares about words and shit? This is why I stick with good old reliable Hadena.

Dark_Sage says:

July 7, 2015 at 9:04 am

But it doesn’t matter how good Commie is. Just that their scripts read like they were written by a thread on reddit. Think of the memes!

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[Commie]’s Oregairu Zoku SNAFU

Visuals

Dialogue

“Bento are lunch boxes, silly.”

The jokes don’t make sense.

Like, epic for the win!

The stupidity doesn’t stop there.

This evil misogyny.

Recommendation sans commendation.

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Meta

[Commie]’s Oregairu Zoku SNAFU

Visuals

Dialogue

“Bento are lunch boxes, silly.”

The jokes don’t make sense.

Like, epic for the win!

The stupidity doesn’t stop there.

This evil misogyny.

Recommendation sans commendation.

315 Comments

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